How to make Poser's Cloth Room work for you every time.

  • @matb If you're looking for a quick and easy way to fold a towel into quarters or thirds, the easiest way I can think of is to use other props to get the fold, like a rod or cylinder, and let the towel drape over it until it is bent in half. Export the folded towel as an object. Then re-import the object back into Poser and fold it over the rod again.

  • That would be a very good idea.
    A few points you could use to get started:
    1 - @matb asked about retaining volume. That is not offered by the cloth room and, just for completeness let me mention Marvelous Designer does not offer it either. It would be easy to do though and when applied to the collar actors it would open up a possibility to make a 'breast room' with the breast responding to lift and pressure by clothing.
    2 - Best results can be obtained when the clothing object is as far as practicable un-stretched in the zero condition. Reason is that if the fabric is stretched in zero condition, the stress associated will not be available in the new simulation. The effect is the same as when a garment you try on was already strained in previous wear. It sags more than you want and just looks shabby.
    3 - do not use double-sided or layered geometry in the simulated areas. It can make Poser die instantly or lock up the simulation. If you have double-sided geometry make sure the inner side, facing the avatar, is defined as 'soft decoration' so it does not play a role in the sim and collision detection and hopefully just follows the 'strucural' vertex nearby.
    4 - Cloth self-collision in the cloth room is weak and results vary strongly.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    If the simulation you need is simple enough (e.g. sheet on a bed) it might be worth playing with bullet physics. Possible to drag stuff around in real time too.

    I don't think it's possible to freeze & export the result of a bullet sim as obj though - if I'm wrong on that let me know, 'cos that would be cool ;)

  • Poser Ambassadors

    One very- extremely- important thing is actually a simple one. => The obj file HAS to be properly welded for the Cloth simm you wanna do.

    With a properly welded obj file you can do everything you want. Cloth room, Fitting room, magnets or Morph brush. All options are open and up fro grabs with a properly welded obj file.

    I find myself using the fitting room and Morph brush to "drape clothing" most.
    (And magnets to style dynamic hair, but that's a whole other issue)

    Coming to think about it, it has been a while since I last used the Cloth room. LOL.

  • @F_Verbaas I've done quilt tutorials for Marvellous that retain volume so I'm respectfully going to have to disagree with you there! :-)

    But otherwise, some very valuable tips, thank you!

  • Watching how this is unfolding (har de har!) Errol, this is an EXCELLENT way to start a thread. "Has anyone got tips on..." some great stuff coming out here. Perhaps we should start a thread like this once a month on different topics.

  • @matb
    I think we talk of different things here. I had taken 'retain volume' as 'maintaining a constant volume'. Like a waterbed: press here and it pups up there.
    I assume you refer to 'applying a constant surface pressure', like a water bed that is connected to a water reservoir of constant pressure. When you push on the surface of the bed the water you displace simply moves into the reservoir.
    I have never actively used bulletphysics but as far as I can see the 'internal pressure' parameter does what you are looking for (Poser reference manual, Chapter 25/page 616):
    Internal Pressure: (Soft Body objects only). Specifies the internal pressure of the object. Objects that have a greater internal pressure will collapse upon themselves less than objects that have a smaller amount of internal pressure

    Consequently it would/should be easy to make the setting available in the clothroom. The function is much used in Marvelous Designer so yes it would be useful t have.

    Retaining constant volume during a simulation is a different matter. It makes sense only if the cloth represents an enclosed volume or the free edges rigidly constrained. Compuationally it would require a surface integral being calculated every simulation step and the internal pressure corrected according to a penalty function, that could for example have the form of Boyle's law. Now we are in the realm of physics: the surface integral used to calculate volume could be an implementation of Archimedes' law.

  • For the sake of argument, and complexity, while Bullet Physics may be used in conjunction with the Cloth Room, I have no intention to cover it in a tutorial on the Cloth Room at this time. I think that for many users the Cloth Room is already complex enough without adding features to it that aren't even a part of the Cloth Room.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Everyday clothing does not "do" volume retention, so there's no need for it in a cloth room either.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 As I understand it the way that bullet physics works would be counter productive in the cloth room unless you are doing a basic animation ... as the cloth doesn't actually "touch" the figure but the "shells" that "attach" to the figure for faster processing like when used in a gaming environment.

  • @Boni said in How to make Poser's Cloth Room work for you every time.:

    @eclark1849 As I understand it the way that bullet physics works would be counter productive in the cloth room unless you are doing a basic animation ... as the cloth doesn't actually "touch" the figure but the "shells" that "attach" to the figure for faster processing like when used in a gaming environment.

    Haven't used BulletPhysics, yet. But, are you saying that bulletphysics uses "hitboxes" for the objects/calcs that it does? It generates these on its own or does the user? (Not meaning to go deep into bulletphysics, 'cause that'd need a new thread.)

  • Did you know?

    That Poser has changed the file format on dynamic hair and dynamic clothing? I rarely buy dynamic clothes because I can so easily make them myself, so when I save them to the library, it's usually as a prop. So as I'm reading the reference manual for the Poser 11 Cloth Room, I see this:

    "Beginning with Poser 11 and Poser Pro 11, hair and cloth dynamic files are saved with an .abc extension (Alembic format)."

    If this goes like in the past, this will be mostly ignored, particularly by the stores and vendors.

  • @eclark1849 Interesting. Wonder why they did that? Would I be correct in thinking that alembic is a more universal format?

  • @vilters No that's a good point, but items like quilts and pillows do, so it's useful occasionally. Even towels and blankets which are constructed as double-sided shells could perhaps avoid vertex intersection problems with that technique.

  • @F_Verbaas I'm afraid the science part of your answer was beyond me (although I appreciate you trying! :-) Yes, the bullet physics might well be a good solution. I've found that a little frustrating to use as the parameters seem to interact so bizarrely, but perhaps I SHOULD give it a second try.

  • Quick question for those of you who want to understand the cloth room better.
    Where exactly are you getting confused and how? I want to make things simple for everyone, but that means making a lot of assumptions about what people know about Poser, and the Cloth Room. Since advanced and power users pretty much know what they're doing at this point, I'm assuming the people reading this tutorial will be mostly new Poser users and people who've only glanced in the Cloth Room's direction before.

  • @eclark1849
    To avoid making assumptions about pre-knowledge best separate fundamentals of soft body/cloth simulation and implementation of this technique in Poser.
    There are a number of cloth simulators around: Marvelous Designer, Virtual World Dynamics, Blender, the DAZ system I forgot the name of, and I bet applications like Maya and 3DS have them also. A part of your audience may therefore be new to Poser but have their tracks in cloth simulation elsewhere. They just want to know the specifics of the implementation. Others will need to build some basic understanding of the process first.

    This will 'catch' questions relating to the mesh walling apart because it is not properly welded.

    The main confusion I see with people is when the cloth 'falls through' their collision object. They usually do not understand how collision is calculated; why, if you want to hang say a piece of cloth over a horizontal rod, it makes sense to have only the top of the rod act as collision object, and why the vertex distance of the cloth must be only a fraction of the diameter of the rod to ensure there is a cloth vertex colliding with the object polygon.
    Problems with cloth hooking up on or falling through fingers, ears, toes and such have that same origin.

  • @F_Verbaas That's needlessly complicating things and the very thing I want to avoid. They don't need to know how Blender, DAZ, or MD work. They need to know what to do to get Poser to work for them and work correctly.

  • @eclark1849
    It is your call. They all work on the same principle.

  • @F_Verbaas I understand your point. I'm trying to keep this as uncomplicated as I can. They don't need to know how every other cloth simulator works, just what they need to do to get Poser to work. I'm reading some past threads from people about the Cloth Room right now, and one of the biggest complaints i see is that it's too technical to understand, and that the Reference Manual reads like a technical journal, which, to be honest, it does.
    I was reading the manual's explanation for Shear Resistance, and honest to god, I think their explanation confused me even more.