Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?



  • Regarding figures, for the most part Poser figures are an afterthought with Poser. They exist merely to show off what new features the latest version of Poser has. Nothing wrong with that, but who's going to pay hundreds of dollars to upgrade to the latest software version just to get the new figure? Even DAZ saw the error in that thinking which is why Studio is free.



  • You already can do amazing things with Pauline and Paul using the face room and a few commercial morphs and skins. It doesn't cost much to do creative things with them, thanks to the fitting room that makes thousands of clothes usable. Here are a few examples that I created just to make that point (if the linking system works better than in the preview window.!

    Pauline can look fab: alt text

    This is Paul and Pauline: alt text

    All three are Pauline: alt text

    Pauline can rock with the best competitors (center, Persia morph and Tempesta3D's Elly texture) with Dawn SE (Elisa character) and V6 (Adrianna character): alt text

    But there is no doubt that SM could do a far better job promoting the figures.





  • looking good. I especially like the last one. What textures are you using for skin?

    @RobZhena said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    You already can do amazing things with Pauline and Paul using the face room and a few commercial morphs and skins. It doesn't cost much to do creative things with them, thanks to the fitting room that makes thousands of clothes usable. Here are a few examples that I created just to make that point (if the linking system works better than in the preview window.!

    Pauline can look fab: alt text

    This is Paul and Pauline: alt text

    All three are Pauline: alt text

    Pauline can rock with the best competitors (center, Persia morph and Tempesta3D's Elly texture) with Dawn SE (Elisa character) and V6 (Adrianna character): alt text

    But there is no doubt that SM could do a far better job promoting the figures.



  • In the last one, Pauline has Tempesta3D's Elly texture. She is such a great artist! I hope she does more for Pauline.



  • @shvrdavid said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    I think that a lot of why you don't see a lot of content for the SM figures comes down to advertising.
    Sometimes people say that it is the quality of the figures and I would say that is the second reason why.

    The "problem" with Poser supplied figures versus Daz ones is almost as old as Poser. I remember when Zygote released Victoria, first of her name. She was expensive, everyone already had a working female figure already supplied by Poser, yet Vicky instantly became a hit. Why? Because she was "better" than Posette...
    Now this horse has already been beaten to a pulp, but the cold hard facts are Daz figures get more use, which means more add-on content, which means more use, which means more add-on content (and so forth). Notwithstanding what people with the right skills might manage to morph & rig out of the base Poser figures, out of the box they have been always inferior. Says the market, not me. I'm just the messenger.

    To me the base is just something to work off of. [...] Doing this is not something I would think the average user wants to do

    Indeed. Not everybody buys a car to make a hot rod out of it... :laughing:
    Not to mention most people don't have the skills: We're leaving the Poser domain and entering the "Modeler" (Lightwave/3DMax/Whatever) one here. Most people use Poser just to make pictures, not to hack code, so all the arguments about it being possible to make a perfect pro-grade figure out of the primitive cube prop inside Poser are IMHO kind of besides the point... :rolling_eyes:

    Smith Micro has done something that is new to the Poser world, and that is make base figures a merchant resource.

    I'm not sure the Poser world was really yearning for a merchant resource figure...

    What the market was yearning for was something to replace the Daz figures Poser users had come to rely upon since last century... Something to stop Poser users sitting there salivating at the Daz store windows... :rolling_eyes:

    It is also a double edged sword in some respects as well. You don't want a hundreds of different versions of the same figure floating around. We saw a mini version of that with the Weight Mapped V4's, and there are more than a few versions of that floating around.

    Indeed, and that's the problem. A slew of versions means even less support, because commercial content creators can't afford to work for extreme niche figures. I'm happy we're at least two to see that this way.

    Studio took that path to promote content, and they have done a really good job at that.

    ...Which in turn profits Studio. People don't buy into a brand, they buy a potential.

    Daz: "Get Studio for free, and you'll be able to use all this shiny lovely content you can buy here"
    Poser: "Buy Poser, and after having learned how to model, rig and UVmap, you'll be able to use our "merchant resource" to build yourself a figure to use"...

    What does need developed in the Poser world, is not necessarily just the the program itself, but the Figures that can be used within it. If it were up to me, Pauline and Paul would get a major upgrade for the next version of Poser versus just making a new base.

    Agree. Except that giving the Paul family a quick once-over won't do. Poser figures need to leap into the 21 century at last.

    Nobody ever wondered why there is so much content for Daz figures, despite their one-day fly lifespans? I see two obvious factors: The tools, and the content optimization.
    The tools are easy to explain: Daz's content creation tools are much much better than Poser's, period. When you spend a big part of your day in them, I guess that counts.
    Also, Daz invented with the Gen4 Millenium figures a system optimizing content creation: Instead of having the usual slew of different and incompatible figures (Poser-like), they made one female and one male base figure, and added morph packs to turn those into whatever you want: Slim, fat, hero, ethnic, creature.
    Then they pushed this even further by having one single, sex-less base figure; This apparently didn't work out all too well, because the next iteration had female and male base figures again.

    This idea is pure genius: It means that if you make a shirt for the base female, all the versions (Victoria, Aiko, Stephanie and whatever they are called now) can use it. No more making a dozen different versions and re-rigging them from scratch.
    For a content creator this means that the piece of clothing he makes now will always work on that character, including on spin-off shapes which are yet to appear.
    Much better than relying on users using the fitting room to tweak, fit and rig stuff themselves.

    Having hundreds of figures to use is great, but the more you have the harder it is to stick to one for content creation. Which is right where Poser is right now. There are so many figures to develop for, that spreading the development between them neglects all of them.

    My point exactly. :thumbsup:

    V7 doesn't look anything like V1, yet it sells...

    Much like the 2016 Fords don't look any like the Model T... "Victoria" is a brand now. At 17, she's almost adult now. Most of us have used her since the beginning.

    This been said, saying the success of Daz's figures is due to marketing is counterproductive, for it leaves the illusion that if they repeat often enough that Pauline is better than Genesis, everyone will eventually come to believe it.

    No I don't work for Poser, but I wish I did have a say in the figure development part of the figures.

    Join the club, we have t-shirts... :rolling_eyes: :laughing:



  • Where is my Tshirt? lol....



  • Yeah, you have to get Scott his t-shirt. If anyone deserves one, he does. :smile:



  • @Miss-B

    Yeah, you have to get Scott his t-shirt. If anyone deserves one, he does. :smile:

    :astonished:



  • @Miss-B
    I'll need his rigging for transfert. This is Poser... :rolling_eyes:



  • I use large rigging with standard joint rotation orders. :laughing:



  • @rg5a said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    This been said, saying the success of Daz's figures is due to marketing is counterproductive, for it leaves the illusion that if they repeat often enough that Pauline is better than Genesis, everyone will eventually come to believe it.

    It's not just in the amount of marketing they do, it's in the quality in their advertised images that DAZ shows off that makes their products look so good. I've never used DAZ Studio, never bothered with V4 even though I have the free base, but I've got to admit that the quality of any official DAZ products promo images are leaps and bounds above any SM rendered promo shots I've seen. This doubles for marketplace images, I've probably passed on thousands of Poser products simply because the promo images are horrendous, but it's not at all like that at the DAZ marketplace. Everything there really looks well rendered and makes the products shine.

    It seems like DAZ has some very stringent guidelines for promo images, SM/CP should really take that and put that towards future content in the Poser marketplace so people don't just pass on everything because a vendor doesn't know how to properly use lighting.



  • shvrdavid, rg5a and johndoe641, thanks for your insights! I agree with your comments wholeheartedly.

    Unfortunately for Poser and the Poser community, Smith Micro has never cared much about content (no matter what they claim). They don't develop much content in-house, so they don't see the need to implement better content creation tools. I don't think they have a team of several people who work exclusively on content creation, or a team of render artists for showing off their products. They still keep Contentparadise open, but they don't maintain it very well. When I uploaded my last product to CP (a while ago, I admit) there was no quality control whatsoever. What comes across to me as a user is "This is what we have. Make do with it." This is not very attractive to me as a customer.

    I really think it's time that all these things are improved. I still have hopes.



  • I'm definitely in the "just want to make pictures" band. I use Poser so I can take advantage to the artistic abilities of the many talented vendors to replace my own lack of the same.
    While the experience of shopping at the various brokerages can vary from brilliant (Hivewire) to aargh, how many times to have I have to click to tell this **** site I don't want to buy extended download service, I sure I don't have to name the site, it is all irrelevant if the content isn't being produced for me to buy.
    In the case of Pauline for example while there have been a reasonable number of character and texture sets, morphs etc. there has been very little in the way of clothing. Now some of you will say why not convert clothing. I don't want to spend my limited hobby time doing that, I rather buy products from vendors, who could produce original products.
    Vendors or course want to spend there time producing products that sell well, I fully understand this, but it has produced the cycle of all the content is produced for v4, therefore other figures don't get used, so anything made for them sells poorly.
    The last native figures that seem to have been supported by SM (or whoever owned Poser at that time) were the g2. If Paul and Pauline got the same level of support from SM could that be the way for them to become to go to Poser figures, and start drawing in other content creators?



  • @j.naylor73

    I have several freebies I have made for Pauline, but I am waiting on shrvdavid's re-rig to include before I release.

    0_1462206846513_BlackWhite.jpg

    0_1462206882086_PaulineSciFi2.jpg



  • And then there's the matter of which rigging do you support? Pauline's original SM rig, or Shvrdavid's or Vilters' re-rig. One one of the several other's floating around out there?



  • @eclark1849 said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    And then there's the matter of which rigging do you support? Pauline's original SM rig, or Shvrdavid's or Vilters' re-rig. One one of the several other's floating around out there?

    I think it's pretty clear that few intend to support the original SM rigging. Besides, why not just support them all? The re-rigs are typically morphs and fairly easy to support.

    I have no idea what shrvdavid will put out, but I plan to support all that I can.

    I just have no intention of releasing anything with the current rigging because it's just too bad.



  • @eclark1849 said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    And then there's the matter of which rigging do you support? Pauline's original SM rig, or Shvrdavid's or Vilters' re-rig. One one of the several other's floating around out there?

    I kind of agree with eclark though. From the perspective of an end user that just wants to click and render, how am I supposed to know which version of Pauline is supported by your product? It's probably not an issue if your product supports all of them, but what if that does not happen? What if people keep making re-rigs of Pauline and we end up with 20 versions?



  • @mr_phoenyxx So what if we DO end up with 20 versions? How is that different from the multitudes of Genesises offered by DAZ?

    You supposedly need X version of V7 to use some characters and Y version to use others.

    Not so sure I get your point?



  • We may end up with 20 versions, that is one of the downfalls. The difference is which one people chose to support.

    I did everything I could think of to make my version as user friendly as possible, and still be able to tie her into a knot without the joints blowing up.. I have also included more than a few morphs, so has Erogenesis and Vilters.