Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?



  • @James_in_3D How was I being confrontational? I simply asked some questions for clarification.

    I still want to know what they don't do that Genesis DOES do? How is that confrontational?



  • @James_in_3D I don't think Glitterati was confrontational at all. You made a claim and she asked you what you thought was wrong with the figures. I'd like to know as well. What is is that Genesis does that you want the Hivewire figures to do? What's wrong with asking about that?



  • @James_in_3D Now, you're just being defensive. Granted you didn't say they were "bad" figures, or that anything was "wrong" with them. Fine. A poor choice of words on my part, then. but all she asked you to do was to elaborate on what you thought Hivewire or SM could do to improve the figures? What's wrong with asking that and why is it confrontational ?

    Do I have problems with other figures? Sure! Do I have problems with Genesis? The ONLY bad thing I have EVER posted about Genesis is that they won't run natively in Poser, and they won't run on my Mac. Other than that I've never used Genesis to form a critical opinion of the figures at all. I also don't think I've ever said anything critical about Dawn or Dusk either. I do know that I've never said anything critical in comparison to the way Dusk or Dawn works in comparison to Genesis. You did. just asking you to explain what.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @HiveWireChris said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    For example, I don't do commercial products for Baby Luna. Her Poser rigging needs some attention and until that is repaired, I won't ask a customer to PAY for what I consider an inferior product.

    Perhaps you can email me with the areas that you feel are inferior with the rigging. I'd like to know. We've created a solid product with Baby Luna and the rigging by Paul and the maps by Virtual World are unsurpassed by any other baby in this market. I'd like to know if these short coming, then we can address them, so that others can share positively about this product, and you in turn can feel better about the many products you've created for her.

    You know, Chris, if I hadn't already reported the issues I would take the time to write it all out AGAIN for you. But, I have and, now, I won't again. Besides, you'll just ignore it a second time.

    Ouch! That came back with a bit if a bite to it. Perhaps you've felt ignored with regards to your concerns. I'll have to pour back thru some dusty emails and see if you've emailed me directly regarding the shortcoming you feel are attached to our Baby Luna. Funny cause it's the same mesh as Dusk and Dawn, and rigged by the same person (Paul) that rigged Dusk and Dawn that apparently you feel are more then adequate in this market.



  • Just to toss this out - what if:

    • All base figures were 'versioned' with compatibility ensured within each whole version

    • All base figures were licensed under an open source license allowing derived characters (there could also be Alyson and "Open Alyson")

    • All base figures had managed source accounts so that SM could integrate third party modifications

    With all of this, each figure could be improved and upgraded as time goes on. Commerical add-ons wouldn't have to be open sourced. Limits could be placed on the license so the models aren't used in a way to that isn't officially sanctioned by SM.

    Some figures have gotten upgrades over the years, but often are replacements. It would be nice to be able to maintain compatibility over a longer period than one version of Poser to the next (which Ill say, has been very good for the most part).



  • @HiveWireChris You know, Chris, I'm a huge Hivewire cheerleader. But, frankly, I don't like the petty games and personal behavior that results from even pointing out an error in something from Hivewire.

    Luna was designed, as you well know, from the original Dawn mesh. While a laudable effort to make the existing content available to your other figures, some issues were created by that scaling.

    By the time you got down to a baby size, the 2 abdomen groups were reduced to little more than 1 row of polygons. Hence, the abdomens rigging intersect with each other, then, those intersect the chest, and the pelvis intersects all of the above. While you rigged a JCM to deal with those intersections, I can't rig an addon TO a JCM (called a CTRL morph in this case).

    The bottom line is simple - clothing addons in the abdomen/Chest/Hip bends look awful. There's simply no method to clean that up because the CTRL morph prevents any "tricks" from working properly. So, one is reduced to "playing" with the UV map so that a shirt looks good while seated or looks good while standing. The textures do not lay properly depending on the pose because of the rigging limitations - the stretching is not commercial quality.

    Additionally, for some unseen reason, Luna's right foot rigging just randomly disappears from addons during the rigging process. That may be a fault of Poser, I can't possibly know because it's random and I got no response when I reported it before Luna was released.

    I love the Hivewire figures and believe they are the best Poser users can have available. I know they aren't perfect, nothing is.



  • @eclark1849 said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @James_in_3D Now, you're just being defensive. Granted you didn't say they were "bad" figures, or that anything was "wrong" with them. Fine. A poor choice of words on my part, then. but all she asked you to do was to elaborate on what you thought Hivewire or SM could do to improve the figures? What's wrong with asking that and why is it confrontational ?

    Do I have problems with other figures? Sure! Do I have problems with Genesis? The ONLY bad thing I have EVER posted about Genesis is that they won't run natively in Poser, and they won't run on my Mac. Other than that I've never used Genesis to form a critical opinion of the figures at all. I also don't think I've ever said anything critical about Dawn or Dusk either. I do know that I've never said anything critical in comparison to the way Dusk or Dawn works in comparison to Genesis. You did. just asking you to explain what.

    I will say this about the current Genesis line-up. We have a top tier artist that is just beginning to create content for our HiveWire figures. This artist also creates content for Genesis. But it takes him some 9 hours to get the rigging done and adjusted to fit the required shapes for Genesis and he finds the general weight maps very, very cumbersome to work with. While our figures are rigged off of the Triax methodology and setting up his outfit for Dawn only took him 2 hours. He was blown away from the creator point of view how little time it took to have his product completely ready for Dawn.

    He also told me very recently how pleased he was with our figure and that the rigging was top notch (my paraphrasing of his words). He also apologized for his earlier thinking about our figures. I know from factual experience that certain things were allowed to be said about Dawn that were negative, while the positive was deleted from another sites forum. So many others that are fans of the Genesis line-up have flung nastiness at our figures. While we're simply trying to offer up our best, AND MAKE OUR FIGURES AVAILABLE NATIVELY IN POSER AND STUDIO. Who else is doing that these days with their core figures?!! Remember too that we're still on version one of our figures. Though we've created a big improvement in Dawn with our S.E. version.

    Much more to come in the way of creamy goodness at HiveWire. We do appreciate your support of us and what our little but dedicated and talented team is striving to provide for this group each day.



  • @HiveWireChris said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @eclark1849 said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @James_in_3D Now, you're just being defensive. Granted you didn't say they were "bad" figures, or that anything was "wrong" with them. Fine. A poor choice of words on my part, then. but all she asked you to do was to elaborate on what you thought Hivewire or SM could do to improve the figures? What's wrong with asking that and why is it confrontational ?

    Do I have problems with other figures? Sure! Do I have problems with Genesis? The ONLY bad thing I have EVER posted about Genesis is that they won't run natively in Poser, and they won't run on my Mac. Other than that I've never used Genesis to form a critical opinion of the figures at all. I also don't think I've ever said anything critical about Dawn or Dusk either. I do know that I've never said anything critical in comparison to the way Dusk or Dawn works in comparison to Genesis. You did. just asking you to explain what.

    I will say this about the current Genesis line-up. We have a top tier artist that is just beginning to create content for our HiveWire figures. This artist also creates content for Genesis. But it takes him some 9 hours to get the rigging done and adjusted to fit the required shapes for Genesis and he finds the general weight maps very, very cumbersome to work with. While our figures are rigged off of the Triax methodology and setting up his outfit for Dawn only took him 2 hours. He was blown away from the creator point of view how little time it took to have his product completely ready for Dawn.

    He also told me very recently how pleased he was with our figure and that the rigging was top notch (my paraphrasing of his words). He also apologized for his earlier thinking about our figures. I know from factual experience that certain things were allowed to be said about Dawn that were negative, while the positive was deleted from another sites forum. So many others that are fans of the Genesis line-up have flung nastiness at our figures. While we're simply trying to offer up our best, AND MAKE OUR FIGURES AVAILABLE NATIVELY IN POSER AND STUDIO. Who else is doing that these days with their core figures?!! Remember too that we're still on version one of our figures. Though we've created a big improvement in Dawn with our S.E. version.

    Much more to come in the way of creamy goodness at HiveWire. We do appreciate your support of us and what our little but dedicated and talented team is striving to provide for this group each day.

    I agree wholeheartedly, Dawn is a dream to rig for. So easy, fast, and intuitive.

    While I can't do any comparison to Genesis as I don't use the figure, I do rig for the Hivewire figures and know fast, easy and painless. That's rigging addons for Dawn.

    Let me also add that when Dawn was upgraded Hivewire to great care to make everything backward compatible. What worked on Dawn v1.0 works on DawnSE.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    I agree wholeheartedly, Dawn is a dream to rig for. So easy, fast, and intuitive.

    While I can't do any comparison to Genesis as I don't use the figure, I do rig for the Hivewire figures and know fast, easy and painless. That's rigging addons for Dawn.

    Let me also add that when Dawn was upgraded Hivewire to great care to make everything backward compatible. What worked on Dawn v1.0 works on DawnSE.

    Cool. Thanks Glitterati for recounting your challenges with Baby Luna. I've just reviewed them with Paul and we'll simply have to address them in an upcoming version or update. So sorry for causing you or others any undo heartache. I know you're a big proponent of another quality baby offering in this market too. You've expressed to me early excitement for Baby Luna while she was in the works.

    Thanks for pushing past issues and doing the best you can to find ways to lend your support. We're trying our best. I can tell you that.



  • @HiveWireChris Hey, I LOVE Baby Luna! I just don't render from the back, LOL!

    How can you NOT love this little creature? Soooooooooo adorable!
    0_1464280399783_LunaSuperfly.jpg



  • @James_in_3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    Thanks for weighing in, Chris. I've just bought the newest version of Dawn and I'm looking forward to working with her.

    Very good kind sir!!! Thanks for the support, on instagram too even. Loving your 54 Belair car work! Wow. Nice!!

    As far as Dawn goes, I think you'll dig working with her. Also, keep on eye on our upcoming newsletters. Some awesome stuff coming out for Dawn!! Holy cow, you're going to dig this stuff.

    Also... EvilInnocence has recently submitted a ton of product with us, and look for that to hit our store soon.



  • @HiveWireChris

    Sorry, screwed up your quote there James. It was in response to your recent download and purchase of Dawn. Thanks again!

    And Glitterati... nice work and image there. Sweet and adorable indeed.



  • @James_in_3D James, we're not trying to argue. But, you do understand that there are only 2 parts to a figure, correct?

    There's the mesh (and I'm certain you're not suggesting anyone violate a copyrighted mesh by copying it); and

    There's the rigging.

    That's it. That's all there is to a figure.

    So, when you suggest someone make Dawn/Dusk "more like Genesis" one is left with the rigging. And, even that can't be copied without violating IP.

    So the question and responses make perfect sense.



  • Lets level the playing field a bit here. All figures have potential, and many of us have demonstrated that over the years.

    A bunch of us got together after Dawn came out, and tore the Poser cr2 to shreds. And I mean that in a positive way.
    There were some issues, and after fixing various things a bunch of us came up with a Poser cr2 that did not change the functionality of Dawn a bit. At the same time corrected the issues we found, without affecting content either.
    I sent my version of a corrected cr2 to Chris, and low and behold his group of people corrected Dawn with SR1.

    Chris does listen, but at the same time I can relate to missing things when trying to correct everything everyone mentioned.
    SR's on figures happen, and more often than not it is users that point out issues first. New sets of eyes so to speak.

    I have missed some blunders when setting up figures myself, and that is just from looking at it so long you over look the obvious.
    Sometimes things that are odd, can not be changed without affecting all the content. That's just the way it is.
    Other times you can correct it and not affect any of the content.

    Will Chris look into an issue with one of his figures? Yes he will, I know that from experience.
    But at the same time don't be upset if something was overlooked, it happens.

    As far as the negativity in the forums, there is not a place for that here.
    You can point anything out you want too, without going the negativity route.

    If there is something that needs done to a figure, someone here can figure out what to do about it.
    But it wont work if it is approached with negativity.
    I can guarantee you that.



  • @shvrdavid Wasn't trying to be negative, Scott, but golly gee wililkers, I don't think asking for specifics in what you consider an improvement is a negative post.


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    @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @James_in_3D James, we're not trying to argue. But, you do understand that there are only 2 parts to a figure, correct?

    There's the mesh... and

    There's the rigging.

    That's it. That's all there is to a figure.

    And there are a million and one ways to improve and refine both that don't violate anyone's IP, while still being on par with, or better than, the competition.

    But some of those improvements require enhancements to the core software to happen before anyone can actually implement them.

    Others rely on base shape and mesh detail, and all of that is in the hands of the figure artist.



  • @AmbientShade Agreed! As Scott said, no figure is perfect, they can all be improved. And, as technology changes, so do the figures.



  • I'd still like to see a version two of Roxie myself. No, most likely stuff made for version one won't fit right, but we can make updates or new stuff. How about it SM? Can we get Roxie covered by the same Merchant Resource agreement as Pauline?



  • @eclark1849 Stuff for Roxie1 do not work already on Roxie1.1 - morphs and poses particularly.

    But, I, too would like to see fixes to Roxie - especially her hand posing. That's a mess (which I reported to SM long ago).


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    Even with all the improvements Poser has seen, we're still pretty much stuck with relying on the base shape and rigging, and if that base shape changes too much, then a lot of the existing content for a figure won't work with its new shape. That's a problem for content artists and prevents us from really taking a figure to whatever level we want to take it to, without worrying whether or not those 10 or 100 other artists making clothing for the base figure and it's existing morph sets will work with our new shape. In that regard we are still stuck with V4 level content tech. That's why there is no clothing for Anastasia, etc. Sure, we have the fitting room, and morph transfer, and they are handy tools, but they are only available to people who have the pro versions and the patience to work with them. So currently we can't look through the store and find whatever clothing we want to work with our favorite character morph. We have to make sure it is clothing that's made to fit that character morph.

    Same is true for texture maps. If you go stretching geometry too far, then your maps are going to be stretched and things aren't going to look right. UV swapping would fix that because then we could remap our ogre morph and set the base figure to use those maps.

    And that's just two ways I'd like to see Poser improve.