Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Funny : History has the habit of repeating itself. :-)

    Renderosity "had" such a search engine. LOL.

    :-) Some "clown" found it "nice" to dump it. :-)



  • @vilters Not what we were talking about - that Renderosity search was only for Renderosity. This would be more on a "shopping mall" concept where you can search internet WIDE for a specific item and then sent to the store where that item is available.



  • @Glitterati3D I really don't think it is hard at all to make. I had a website and my hosting service gave me lots of free PHP scripts, definitely a free PHP gallery on a cheap server with a guy that cares to admin it (it would not be hard or much work) is possible, just someone needs to actually do it. I'm disabled and not reliable at all so I can't volunteer, but it would be cheap. A small fee into the kitty from each vendor would be more than enough to cover it. It would be a very simple page, and as long as the only ones posting to it are vendors, I don't see it being very much to get online. Add the public commenting in forums and overhead and then it would be a bigger job. I think you all just need a parking lot with minimal frills, but with the ability to really showcase items.



  • @eternityblue Nah, no forums. Just the parking lot with product billboards and links. Let me submit ONE promo image (all the same size), classify from dropdown lists and add a link to the product. Done. Simple. Effective.



  • Hello All (no drama intended here). Given that Poser's tools are becoming ever more powerful in the content generation and fitting areas, is it really possible going forward that figure synergy across the spectrum is achievable or sustainable? For example, some folks have "issues" with Paulene regarding her aesthetic. Pull her into ZBrush and work some magic. Adjust her rig back in Poser Pro and send her periodically back to ZBrush (or use the Poser morph brush) and create a slew of JCMs. Bham! Paulene looks and works the way one wants her to for their particular needs/desires. That particular version of Paulene is not guaranteed to work with all other Paulene variants, present or future. Now creating clothing and fits for that specific Paulene variant isn't hard at all, especially for the person who created the variant. But there's really no way, to the best of my knowledge, to make those products suited for the specific Paulene to work out of the box with all other Paulenes. So if a customer goes to site X and buys that variant, is it a reasonable expectation that it should work with all (most) Paulene variants? If so, then how is that even possible given the unlimited possibilities and potential using Poser's powerful tools? Personally, I'm a huge fan of Poser 11 Pro and the potential of Paulene. But what I create for my Paulene will work for my specific variant and the base Paulene shipped with the software. I don't know how to guarantee she'll work with anyone else's Paulene variant without them having to resort to at least minimal morph brushing.



  • @smurfstalker I'm not sure exactly why that matters? Is it that we're all just used to injecting morphs to get the characters we want? I see loading a "new" Pauline as a plus over injecting 600 morph files to get what I want and then having to spin all those dials.

    I think there's a market for CR2 Paulines the customer can purchase as long as they understand that it's a different delivery method.

    As for supporting items, make them yourself (bigger market for you!) or team up with clothing vendors to have them made for "your" Pauline. (Bigger market for vendors, too.)

    Nothing wrong with shaking up the delivery method for figure creation.



  • @AmbientShade I really think you are misunderstanding something. Let's take Genesis 3 as an example.

    I buy a dress for Genesis 3. Then I buy a morph that is a heavy set morph for Genesis 3. If that is a custom morph, then the original clothing does not fit the morphed figure.

    In order for morphing to fit any and all shapes, one would have to load all those shapes into the original figure - even ones that don't exist yet.

    That's why you see lists like this on clothing models
    Supported Shapes:
    Arabella 7
    Bethany 7
    Eva 7
    Gia 7
    Izabella 7
    Karen 7
    Mei Lin 7
    Olympia 7
    Teen Josie 7
    The Girl 7
    Victoria 7

    Using any other custom XXXX 7 morph is not going to fit without some effort on the user's part.



  • @Glitterati3D Actually, while I don't know if it's still working or not, I think there is something like that, sorta. I just don't know if you can add to it or not. But someone whose name escapes me right now,( sorry having a brain fart) created a database or search engine or whatsis, called Whatever3d. com. I used to use that thing all the time to look for stuff i needed..

    I think the guy who set it up is going by the name Dodger now.



  • @eclark1849 said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:
    This doesn't encompass any of the smaller brokerages - YURDigital, Dana-Anderson, FantasiesRealm and no independent vendors like Meshbox

    Just the bigs.



  • Actually, YUR digital is listed. There are sites listed that i didn't even know existed, so I can forgive him not having them all. He even has Trekkiegrrl's freebies, but as far as I can tell, he doesn't have Kozubro's site up either. or Xurge, if thatstill running. Maybe he can add them .



  • @Glitterati3D Thanks for the reply :) Why it matters to me is I have a concern about potential market perception. If a customer buys "my Paulenes" and expect it to work with "all Paulenes" then that's just not possible. Oh well. I'm just going to operate on the philosophy of 'build it and they will come', especially since it's already built. That darn proof usually does reside in the dang pudding, lol.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Tja. . . Here the Poser11Pro have the "Copy Morphs from" tool, that the Poser11 users do not have.

    They can however re-create any figure morph into clothing using the Morphs brush to make a "Custom Morph fit ".

    There are always ways to make something fit.
    And as a last resort? => Take the original obj file into Blender and make it fit.

    REMARK : Use the original obj file. NEVER reuse ANY obj exported from Poser or you will end up with issues at the vertex-groups welds.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @AmbientShade I really think you are misunderstanding something. Let's take Genesis 3 as an example.

    I buy a dress for Genesis 3. Then I buy a morph that is a heavy set morph for Genesis 3. If that is a custom morph, then the original clothing does not fit the morphed figure.

    In order for morphing to fit any and all shapes, one would have to load all those shapes into the original figure - even ones that don't exist yet.

    That's why you see lists like this on clothing models
    Supported Shapes:
    Arabella 7
    Bethany 7
    Eva 7
    Gia 7
    Izabella 7
    Karen 7
    Mei Lin 7
    Olympia 7
    Teen Josie 7
    The Girl 7
    Victoria 7

    Using any other custom XXXX 7 morph is not going to fit without some effort on the user's part.

    @Glitterati3D I don't have characters for genesis 3 but I do have characters for genesis 2, and all the legacy shapes for it (that is, generation 4 and 5 shapes). To test this, I just rigged a t-shirt for the base G2M that I had in zbrush. It also happens that my gen 4 legacy shapes were not installed, (I'm guessing due to the last re-install I did some months ago), which helped with my test as the morphs weren't present for the transfer utility to put them in the shirt at the time of rigging. So I rigged the shirt for G2M first, then saved it to the library. Then I installed the legacy shapes, loaded a new scene and a new G2M, then added the t-shirt to him and all the legacy shapes work on the shirt without my having to transfer any morphs to it. Now I'm not saying that this would be as simple with more complex clothing - it is after all just a t-shirt, but it demonstrates the point. I'll try it again on a more complex piece, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work nearly the same. The entire process also took all of about 10 minutes, and that included finding where the shirt was saved to the library.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @eclark1849 said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:
    This doesn't encompass any of the smaller brokerages - YURDigital, Dana-Anderson, FantasiesRealm and no independent vendors like Meshbox

    Just the bigs.

    Therein likes the problem with a centralized database that is run by a company, suddenly the db owner becomes Dark Lord (Darth Googlus). I don't think that's Sean's way of thinking with his search engine.

    I have set up a directory to which users can submit tools, studios, brokerages, etc here - http://contentcreatorsguild.com/directory

    There is a section for free characters: http://contentcreatorsguild.com/directory/content/free-content/free-poser-and-daz-studio-characters

    If anyone would like to help populate this, then contact me and we can talk. I add new stuff now and then when I have free time.



  • I bought a really nice set of Meshbox Halfling models from mirye's site, later I did a Google search and found if I had bought from Meshbox directly, I would have saved $10. Only thing is I wasn't aware I could get them directly. I was happy with the models @ $50, but knowing I could have gotten them directly for less did give me a funny, not so pleasant taste in my mouth.



  • @AmbientShade said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    I should clarify though, that it is possible to rig a figure in poser so that its clothing functions (mostly) this way, but there are currently no figures that take advantage of it, and the results are still limiting.

    That's good to know...as someone coming from DS to create Diva in Poser that was something I found very frustrating getting the clothing to fit. I'm hoping to update to Poser Pro 11 when I can afford it as I've heard the tools make creating injections and other things easier to do. Traci's method has certainly helped a lot of Poser users to get clothing onto Diva though...for which I'm very grateful!



  • @Glitterati3D said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    @AmbientShade I really think you are misunderstanding something. Let's take Genesis 3 as an example.

    I buy a dress for Genesis 3. Then I buy a morph that is a heavy set morph for Genesis 3. If that is a custom morph, then the original clothing does not fit the morphed figure.

    In order for morphing to fit any and all shapes, one would have to load all those shapes into the original figure - even ones that don't exist yet.

    That's why you see lists like this on clothing models
    Supported Shapes:
    Arabella 7
    Bethany 7
    Eva 7
    Gia 7
    Izabella 7
    Karen 7
    Mei Lin 7
    Olympia 7
    Teen Josie 7
    The Girl 7
    Victoria 7

    Using any other custom XXXX 7 morph is not going to fit without some effort on the user's part.

    Just wanted to clarify this...some things will work without any custom shapes if the mesh is built in a certain way. Blondie's original tutorial on rigging in DS with the original genesis showed some examples of extreme morphs fitting with no worries using the auto generated morphs. Auto generated morphs do seem to be better in Genesis 2 and 3 also.

    In regards to custom morph creation that's going to depend upon the clothing creator, many will provide a range of morphs as you cited.

    In regards to new morphs that come onto the scene it is relatively easy to create a custom morph for distribution if you wanted to and some vendors do update their products.

    An example of this is I have created a Diva morph for Mada's flower fairy for Dawn and have her permission to release it as a freebie. I'm only holding off until I can create an injection file for it so that poser users will also have access to it.

    Also most morphs will work quite well if you add either/or smoothing modifiers or push modifiers. I personally prefer custom morphs but you can get good results without one.



  • @vilters said in Why does nobody in Poserland want my money?:

    Tja. . . Here the Poser11Pro have the "Copy Morphs from" tool, that the Poser11 users do not have.

    They can however re-create any figure morph into clothing using the Morphs brush to make a "Custom Morph fit ".

    There are always ways to make something fit.
    And as a last resort? => Take the original obj file into Blender and make it fit.

    REMARK : Use the original obj file. NEVER reuse ANY obj exported from Poser or you will end up with issues at the vertex-groups welds.

    This is so true...I do wish though that the copy morphs was available to all users not just content creators who own the pro version.



  • @Pendraia My only problem with yours and Tony's assertion about making clothes fit is that it is basically a skill that not all people are adept at. What's the point in having a tool if you have no idea how it works or how to properly use it? To me, the best solution to having users solve their own clothing problems is Wardrobe wizard, and even that requires some fiddling with every now and then.



  • I have been thinking about this for a bit, and there is a solution to a lot of the fitting problems for clothes in Poser.
    This solution probably wont work for older content, but it could for future content.

    The answer? Paul and Pauline. (I know, you probably think I bumped my head. But let me explain my reasoning)

    Paul and Pauline are resource figures.
    No they are not replacements for every figure out there but they do offer things that we have not had before.
    And the biggest thing they offer is being reusable templates.

    You can now make figures that reuse any parts of them.
    Skeletons can be reused, UV's can be matched, You could even reuse parts of the mesh if you wanted too.

    Lets consider the skeletons for a bit.
    If you make a new figure and base it off of one of those skeletons, you can reuse a lot from the original figure without a lot of work. Poses will work, and you can even create a file for it so Poser can use the Universal Poses system so they need very little tweaking at all.
    With similar skeletons, the clothes will also be reusable as well. Yes you will probably need new morphs for that body shape, but you wont have to start from scratch.
    Hair will be even easier, and at most need joint centers and a morph for the head shape applied to it.
    Genesis uses a very similar concept, but I have seen some oddities in Genesis stuff where it does not always work out as planned.
    With any system that reuses stuff, you are going to have issues somewhere no matter how you go about it.
    A suit that fits me great, may not work so well on everyone, and it is not much different in the 3D world either.

    Lets consider the UV's.
    One of the biggest hurdles with any new figures is textures.
    Textures take a fair mount of time to make, and if there are already textures out there you are that far ahead already.

    The meshes, well there is a lot you can do with those, or you can just create new ones.

    What does doing it this way mean? Basically that new figures now have a way of reusing things from others if they are based off of something else? Sound familiar? Studio? Genesis (inset number here)?

    Its great that we have tons of figures for Poser, but it depends on the version of Poser you have, your skill level, if different content can be applied to another figure. For years we have had all sorts of tools available to do things like this.
    Wardrobe Wizard, Morphing Clothes, Netherworks hair conversion system, Lyrra's Fitting room sets, Blacksmith texture transformer, the list goes on. We needed these because there was very little commonality between the figures.

    Now we have a way of legally making some commonality between newer figures.
    No Paul and Pauline probably wont be the end all replacement setups, just as Genesis 1 isn't anymore in Studio.
    But the foundation is now laid down for Poser to have a similar system, just in a different way.

    Food for thought.....