Experiments in creating necklaces etc for use in Poser's cloth room



  • With the chain links (yellow) in the 'Soft' group, the main dynamic loop (red) in 'default' with default settings, and the dangly dynamics (white) in a new dynamic group with modified settings as noted on the image below, here's the latest. Some bits of the dangle are disappearing under her skin,but the dangles seem tobe behaving a bit better. The simulation took about 10 seconds per frame:
    0_1486012811416_ModDanglyDyn.jpg



  • ( today's gripe: I don't like the way this forum changes singlequote underscore default underscore singlequoteto 'default' it's a PITA! )



  • @3dcheapskate I will agree that what ever configuration you had in that last group was more satisfying visually. We also have to remember that these are, at best, estimates as to how items will react in the real world. No way we can account for ALL the real dynamic forces that interact on everything everyday. So yeah, this is Poser. Close enough counts. :)



  • For what it's worth, I'd reduce the friction levels. Sure there will be some friction, but we are talking about a polished metal (low surface friction) that is also very high density (roughly 2.5 times the density of iron). Reduce friction, increase gravity, and the dangly bits should dangle more like the real thing.

    You could also adjust cloth density to actually reflect the values for gold rather than cloth... Cloth density is supposed to reflect the sectional density of the fabric, but given that gold is some 20 to 30 times denser than cloth, I'm not sure how Poser would react setting cloth density to 20, hence my suggestion around gravity and friction.



  • @piersyf - reducing friction seems a good idea. But there's no gravity option in the cloth dynamics (at least not in PP2014) - that's the hair room. I've been playing with the values of various 'Dynamics Controls' and whatever I do there's no real bending within each of the dangles.I think that's what actually looks wrong. So maybe it's the underlying dynamic mesh for the dangles (white) that needs changing? I know that normal dynamic cloth works best with triangles (and I've heard of delauney triangulation) so maybe I need to redothe dynamic part of the mesh for the dangles ?



  • @morkonan - sorry, I didn't see your post until just now !
    Cage's MrLooper scripts are a good recommendation - I'll have to play with them.
    I started looking at dynamic jewellery because none of the non-dynamic ones look right to me. Either they can't be morphed/adjusted to hang realistically for the poses I'm using, or the work involved in doing so is beyond my 'is it worth it?' limit. Reducing the load of the actual dynamic cloth simulation so that it works on one rectangle per chain link was the key - the actual chain link mesh is just dragged along after the dynamics calculations are done.



  • Just got my best result yet with the dangles.
    Different dynamics settings for the underlying mesh for the main loop andthe underlying mesh for the the dangles - non-default values are circled in yellow. I wasreally surprised that setting 'Stretch Resistance to zero for the dangles seemed to give the biggest improvement:
    0_1486136199072_BestYet.jpg

    I also tried with the necklace around her right arm. It's still swinging at frame 90 (so I probably need to adjust the damping), but it's looking reasonable to me:
    0_1486136396163_Arm.jpg



  • Tried a new mesh for the basic dynamic part - a diamond (made from two triangles) representing each chain link, and each diamond in the main loop (white) connected to the next by a single vertex. Dangles are connected in the same manner.This setup seems more intuitively appropriate. I tried three different arrangements for the dangles:

    1. Green -the faces are coplanar with the white diamond from which they dangle.
    2. Blue - the faces are twisted 90 degrees with respect to with the white diamond from which they dangle.
    3. Red - dangling diamonds are twisted 90 degrees with respect to the previous one.

    Here's a Blender screenshot showing only this underlying dynamic mesh:

    0_1486552541398_DynDangles2DynMesh.jpg

    I also created a simplistic mesh to represent the chain links using 16 faces per link, with each link unconnected to any other part of the mesh, assigned to 'Soft Decorated'. Using just a single dynamic group with zero fold/shear/stretch resistanceand zero friction and collisionoffset/depth of 0.1 this is the result after 90frames:

    0_1486553301340_DynDangles2after90.jpg

    No big difference from the gold necklace render in the previous post, and no real difference in the way the red, green and blue dangles seem to behave.



  • @3dcheapskate Vertices from the dangles are penetrating the polygons of the figure, but if you don't mind a little post work, you could fix that with the morph brush.



  • If anybody wants to play, I've uploaded both the latest and the earlier gold versions of the" test necklace with dangly bits" to ShareCG as Poser props (positioned for V4's neck, with all the necessary dynamics saved in the PP2) - https://www.sharecg.com/v/87236/view/11/Poser/TEST-Necklaces-Using-Poser-Dynamic-Cloth



  • @eclark1849 - My own (rather hamfisted) postwork approach is usually to do a spot render of the offending area but with the body part of the figure that is poked through made invisible, and then fix it in GIMP. Your approach sounds more sensible ! :o)
    I was also struck by AmethystPendant's recent post on your mainCloth Room thread,specifically the bit about exporting a the prop as an OBJ partway through the sim, and then reimporting it and doing a new sim so that you lose all the built-up velocity of the poriginalsimthat caused the pokethrough in the first place.
    Another option might be to increase the collision depth/offset.

    I like having options.



  • @3dcheapskate said in Creating necklaces etc for use in Poser's cloth room:

    @eclark1849 - My own (rather hamfisted) postwork approach is usually to do a spot render of the offending area but with the body part of the figure that is poked through made invisible, and then fix it in GIMP. Your approach sounds more sensible ! :o)
    I was also struck by AmethystPendant's recent post on your mainCloth Room thread,specifically the bit about exporting a the prop as an OBJ partway through the sim, and then reimporting it and doing a new sim so that you lose all the built-up velocity of the poriginalsimthat caused the pokethrough in the first place.

    Thank you, but I actually said you DON'T need to export, simply spawn a morph target. :o) This way you don't have to set up all your cloth sim params again



  • @amethystpendant - Even better ! :)



  • Just tried a very simple pendant, using only the simplified dynamic mesh - a diamond made of two triangles for each chain link, plus a bigger triangle for the actualpendant. No modelled chain-link mesh. In the Cloth Room everything goesin the default group with default settings, exceptI made all friction values zero and increased Cloth Density by a factor of 10 to 0.05.Alsocollisionoffset/depth both set to 0.25

    0_1486567962098_pendantmesh.jpg

    After just 9 frames it had draped rather nicely.

    0_1486568097972_pendant.jpg

    After that it bounced back up, wobbled around a bit and got a bit lopsided, and sunk intoVicky's flesh. But the way it dangled still seemed reasonable.

    0_1486568213659_pendantmeshlater.jpg



  • @3dcheapskate What options do you have in the simulation settings i.e. steps; collision types? Can you make that model available for testing?

    Amanda



  • @amethystpendant - Everything's default in the Simulation Settings (so it's just cloth vertex against object poly, 2 steps per frame, zero drape frames) except I set End Frame to 90.

    It seems that I don't have enough priveleges to upload a PPZ (or even a plain TXT) here, so I'll probably upload that to ShareCG.

    I also just tried rotating it in frame 1 so that the pendant was over her right shoulder pointing upwards, and ran the sim again. It actually behaved rather well - the pendant landed on her shoulder, then pulled itself forwards and downwards.

    0_1486569187024_Weighty.jpg



  • @3dcheapskate - Very simplistic test necklace from the last post uploaded to ShareCG here - https://www.sharecg.com/v/87241/view/11/Poser/Test3DynamicNecklace

    The download is a single PPZ - if you have PPZ files associated with Poser on your systemthem make sure you select the 'Save File'option fromyour browser,rather than have your browser try to open the PPZ with Poser.



  • There's no rule that says you HAVE to use the final frame of a sim. Go back between one of the bounces, find the frame you like best and use that. Close counts in Poser.



  • @morkonan

    http://www.morphography.uk.vu/~cagepage/looper/loopy.html

    Good link that one but can someone confirm what version of Poser they will work with as the links seem to go back to 2011 and not certain what has changed in python since then



  • Using all three test necklaces that I've uploaded at ShareCG (here and here)with a 90 frame sim, collision with forearms hands and fingers only, zero friction, collision offset = 0.2 and collision depth = 0.4 (after scanning aRtBee's cloth sim manual again - with values of 0.1/0.1 the necklaces bounced a bit then sliced through her fingers!)I'm reasonably happy that this idea's worth pursuing.

    Here's a screenshot of frame 90. All three necklaces are still bouncing around, but all three look reasonable to me.

    0_1486608911746_frame90bouncing.jpg

    And here are screenshots of a few of the earlier frames.You can clearly see the stretching and bouncing about.

    0_1486608971858_intermediate.jpg