Experiments in creating necklaces etc for use in Poser's cloth room



  • @3dcheapskate Vertices from the dangles are penetrating the polygons of the figure, but if you don't mind a little post work, you could fix that with the morph brush.



  • If anybody wants to play, I've uploaded both the latest and the earlier gold versions of the" test necklace with dangly bits" to ShareCG as Poser props (positioned for V4's neck, with all the necessary dynamics saved in the PP2) - https://www.sharecg.com/v/87236/view/11/Poser/TEST-Necklaces-Using-Poser-Dynamic-Cloth



  • @eclark1849 - My own (rather hamfisted) postwork approach is usually to do a spot render of the offending area but with the body part of the figure that is poked through made invisible, and then fix it in GIMP. Your approach sounds more sensible ! :o)
    I was also struck by AmethystPendant's recent post on your mainCloth Room thread,specifically the bit about exporting a the prop as an OBJ partway through the sim, and then reimporting it and doing a new sim so that you lose all the built-up velocity of the poriginalsimthat caused the pokethrough in the first place.
    Another option might be to increase the collision depth/offset.

    I like having options.



  • @3dcheapskate said in Creating necklaces etc for use in Poser's cloth room:

    @eclark1849 - My own (rather hamfisted) postwork approach is usually to do a spot render of the offending area but with the body part of the figure that is poked through made invisible, and then fix it in GIMP. Your approach sounds more sensible ! :o)
    I was also struck by AmethystPendant's recent post on your mainCloth Room thread,specifically the bit about exporting a the prop as an OBJ partway through the sim, and then reimporting it and doing a new sim so that you lose all the built-up velocity of the poriginalsimthat caused the pokethrough in the first place.

    Thank you, but I actually said you DON'T need to export, simply spawn a morph target. :o) This way you don't have to set up all your cloth sim params again



  • @amethystpendant - Even better ! :)



  • Just tried a very simple pendant, using only the simplified dynamic mesh - a diamond made of two triangles for each chain link, plus a bigger triangle for the actualpendant. No modelled chain-link mesh. In the Cloth Room everything goesin the default group with default settings, exceptI made all friction values zero and increased Cloth Density by a factor of 10 to 0.05.Alsocollisionoffset/depth both set to 0.25

    0_1486567962098_pendantmesh.jpg

    After just 9 frames it had draped rather nicely.

    0_1486568097972_pendant.jpg

    After that it bounced back up, wobbled around a bit and got a bit lopsided, and sunk intoVicky's flesh. But the way it dangled still seemed reasonable.

    0_1486568213659_pendantmeshlater.jpg



  • @3dcheapskate What options do you have in the simulation settings i.e. steps; collision types? Can you make that model available for testing?

    Amanda



  • @amethystpendant - Everything's default in the Simulation Settings (so it's just cloth vertex against object poly, 2 steps per frame, zero drape frames) except I set End Frame to 90.

    It seems that I don't have enough priveleges to upload a PPZ (or even a plain TXT) here, so I'll probably upload that to ShareCG.

    I also just tried rotating it in frame 1 so that the pendant was over her right shoulder pointing upwards, and ran the sim again. It actually behaved rather well - the pendant landed on her shoulder, then pulled itself forwards and downwards.

    0_1486569187024_Weighty.jpg



  • @3dcheapskate - Very simplistic test necklace from the last post uploaded to ShareCG here - https://www.sharecg.com/v/87241/view/11/Poser/Test3DynamicNecklace

    The download is a single PPZ - if you have PPZ files associated with Poser on your systemthem make sure you select the 'Save File'option fromyour browser,rather than have your browser try to open the PPZ with Poser.



  • There's no rule that says you HAVE to use the final frame of a sim. Go back between one of the bounces, find the frame you like best and use that. Close counts in Poser.



  • @morkonan

    http://www.morphography.uk.vu/~cagepage/looper/loopy.html

    Good link that one but can someone confirm what version of Poser they will work with as the links seem to go back to 2011 and not certain what has changed in python since then



  • Using all three test necklaces that I've uploaded at ShareCG (here and here)with a 90 frame sim, collision with forearms hands and fingers only, zero friction, collision offset = 0.2 and collision depth = 0.4 (after scanning aRtBee's cloth sim manual again - with values of 0.1/0.1 the necklaces bounced a bit then sliced through her fingers!)I'm reasonably happy that this idea's worth pursuing.

    Here's a screenshot of frame 90. All three necklaces are still bouncing around, but all three look reasonable to me.

    0_1486608911746_frame90bouncing.jpg

    And here are screenshots of a few of the earlier frames.You can clearly see the stretching and bouncing about.

    0_1486608971858_intermediate.jpg



  • Probably worth mentioning that my ultimate goal is to be able to create simple underlying dynamic meshes for necklaces and earrings such as those in klausdbg's beautiful, but very high poly, Bellydance Jewels Part Iand Part 2 freebies at ShareCG.

    Side view of a couple of frames from that last sim (note: V4 is static):

    0_1486609803423_sideview.jpg



  • @eclark1849 - indeed there isn't ! Simply pick the best frame.

    I tried modifying the most recent necklace skeleton to have five dangles. This very simple test seems to behave as I had expected (lots of bounce) and hoped (the pendants dangle in accordance with gravity).
    0_1486611789358_5pendants.jpg

    There's something not quite right with my mesh - the diamonds on the main loop from which the dangles hang appear to have an extra vertex/triangle. I think I'll try to tidy up this particular five pendant mesh, and then try adding a chain link (and pendant) mesh to it to go in the "Soft Decorated"group.

    I'm wondering whether the 'weight' of things in the Decorated groups is meant to affect the simulation at all,or whether they are really just dragged along after the simulation calculationsare done on just the dynamic group(s).

    I also want to find out why using the "Rigid Decorated" group caused my necklaceswith danglesto fallapart in the sim, but seemed to workperfectly (and faster) for my simple loop necklaces.



  • Not good news this time.

    I added mesh for the chain links and pendants to the simplistic dynamic mesh, assigned that to the "Soft Decorated" group, and compared simulations. Each yellow link/pendant is not connected to any other.

    It would seem to indicate that the "Decorated" groups actually modify the simulation.

    Basic mesh (green) simulation on the left. Full mesh (dynamic=pink, SoftDecorated=yellow) simulation is on the right. The green and pink meshes are identical. The initial positions of the necklaces were set by eye to be about the same (importing them into Poser gave different origins).

    0_1486616049339_Untitled.jpg



  • Aha ! I tried assigning the yellow stuff tothe "Rigid Decorated"group (which is of course more logical, but which I previously noted caused the whole necklace to explode). As the simulation ran bitsof the yellow mesh broke apart and stretched:

    0_1486616540637_SemiExploding.jpg

    However, after the sim had finished I ran through the 90 frames and nothing was stretching. The sim seemed to run almost the same as it did with just the simple green mesh. However, there was some minor breaking apart of the yellow bits by the time it reached frame 90:

    0_1486616696458_SlightlyExplodedResult.jpg

    So it appears that what I see while the sim is running is not what's actually happening, and I should probably let the sim run to completion.

    Now if I could work out why bits of the yellow mesh are breaking off when I try using the "Rigid Decorated" group...



  • @tastiger said in Experiments in creating necklaces etc for use in Poser's cloth room:

    @morkonan

    http://www.morphography.uk.vu/~cagepage/looper/loopy.html

    Good link that one but can someone confirm what version of Poser they will work with as the links seem to go back to 2011 and not certain what has changed in python since then

    I used Looper/roper and some others in P11Pro a few days ago, testing them out. One of them had an error, but it wasn't anything much and a secondary script did the same thing, so if one fails, it's no real loss. I think it may have been one of them that had a more complex menu system in it, but the features are in one of the other scripts, too. I know I've used them in 2012 Poser Pro with no fails/hangs.



  • Here's a render of that last one using the Rigid group. The occasional clearly disconnected link kills it for me. Maybe the morph brush could help there?
    0_1486620345069_broken.jpg



  • Hi,

    I'll try running some sims tonight, but there really isn't enough geometry to do a successful sim. Also, it is supposed to be simulating real world cloth. When I put on a necklace, especially one with a heavy pendant, I wouldn't hold it 6 inches above my chest and let it fall. I let it hang down and then either bend my head and draw it back over my head if it's a closed string, or more likely bring the 2 edges of the clasp behind my head and close the clasp. I know the later would be difficult, though not impossible with choreographed verts / constrained groups, but you get the idea, the starting position allows too much momentum to be built up before it starts colliding with your figure hence the bouncing.

    Amanda



  • @amethystpendant - all very good points ! :)

    I should probably have mentioned that the bouncing and stretching isn't a problem for me. I do realize that having the necklace in a more realistic position to start with would give a better, gentler, less bouncy-stretchy simulation. Consider that I'm just half-crazy and enjoy doing unnecessary stress-testing! ;o)

    Regarding there not being enough geometry - minimal geometry for the dynamic mesh is what I'm actually after. I was rather surprised that the sim manages to cope with faces that are joined by a single vertex. But then with the steel balls (vertices) and springs (edges) analogy (aRtBee's manualand elsewhere) I can sort of see how that works.

    I've also just realized that the problem with the necklace breaking up if the actual chain links mesh was in the "Rigid" group only seemed to happen when I switched from a dynamic mesh of all quads joined along edges, to a dynamic mesh including triangles joined by single vertices - seethe annotated diagram below. So maybe I've simplified a bit too far?

    0_1486632538596_QuadsOrTris.jpg