RDNA Forums are gone. :(


  • Poser Ambassadors

    This is one of the reasons why when I was moderator at Rosity, I tried getting people to help build a wiki, so that we could collect all the vital information into one place. They even re-established a designated wiki section at least partially due to my request, during their site re-design. But because of ill feelings over the last wiki that got removed long before I became mod, no one wanted to help. So it never got rebuilt because people wouldn't let go of past resentments. Had it been worked on then, the loss of those threads at rdna would not mean that much now because the info would be at rosity. This is the kind of thing that adds to the fracturing of this community.

    It's not like people didn't know this was coming, for at least a good year now, or close to it.



  • @morkonan said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    @Glitterati3D said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    @morkonan That's my complaint, as well. Their QA is simply non-existent.... I just don't shop at Renderosity anymore and haven't for some time.

    Shop it! Except, don't shop simply because it's the store you like, shop it for the producers that you have come to know as makers of quality products. That's what I do - I no longer care about "where" I shop, I only care about the creators and their known skill at creating products I might like.

    Rendo is fine. They are defensive, 'tis true, and.. I'm not going to say anything else on that matter. However, disregard the "url" and keep an eye on the artists and their products. Feel free to skip a product with the world's crappiest render or yet another "I did teh photoshop on dis an u should buy it teh" product. Instead, head for the product sections of artists that have proven, time and time again, they produce quality products.

    That goes for anywhere that these people sell their products. The only way to make a stand for quality is going to be supporting artists who demonstrate that quality and, indirectly, the stores that work hard to retain those suppliers.

    I agree with you @morkonan. Ultimately the shop doesn't matter -- I buy from the artists who show skill at what they do.

    I'm not going to stop buying from artists whose work I enjoy, whose work is quality, because Rendo is a relative sh_t-show. Punishing the artists for the sins of the brokerage is kind of ridiculous.

    Shop Rendo. Shop wherever. Just support the artists.



  • @Glitterati3D said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    @vilters But we all know this happens over and over.

    If you have posted all this valuable information and not bothered to copy it and put it in a SAFE place, that's on you.

    I had some tutorials over there that I put into a PDF document and made available elsewhere, because I knew the RDNA forums would disappear eventually. We all did.

    ^^^ This. We knew it was coming. We knew the RDNA folks had said adios.

    So I agree with @Glitterati3D -- I'm not sure all of the responsibility for this lost info can be laid at the feet of RDNA.



  • @AmbientShade said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    Had it been worked on then, the loss of those threads at rdna would not mean that much now because the info would be at rosity. This is the kind of thing that adds to the fracturing of this community.

    Just an observation, but there has never been a strong third-party Poser (or DS) community. All such communities revolve around the resellers/brokerages.

    This creates the situation that you describe. Enthusiasts and technical people frequent these places, but they are only a small focus for the hosts, since they're concentrated on staying alive, keeping the lights on, making rent payments and helping their employees feed their kids.

    Also, quite regularly in this community, these more commercially focused sites sometimes have fairly draconian policies when it comes down to community members discussing their competitors, linking to products of interest or even criticizing their own site. Everyone is supposed to "play nice, enjoy the Kool-Aid, talk about how great we are, be positive, be enthusiastic about our store and community, blah, blah." OK, that's all well and good, but, sometimes, actions are taken which make it very transparent what the end-goals of the hosts actually are. Thankfully, SM doesn't seem to have the invisible "heavy hand of government" that other sites have in this regard. That's likely because they're bigger, don't sweat the small stuff, and understand that happy community members are exactly what is printed on the box - Happy community members. Happy members buy stuff and think positively about their hosts...

    What's needed? An indestructible refuge. Where does such a thing exist? It doesn't, not really. A couple of possible sources do not fully support the sorts of interactions necessary for our purposes. (A home IP, Threads, long posts, small hosting/uploads, user-pages, gallery support, community and technical support (host-provided), etc..)

    A combination of certain internetz assets could work as a base for such a community. So, these things are available. The key, of course, is whether or not "the Will exists."

    Incorporated entities are perpetual. They do not die unless the money runs out. This is the advantage that brokerage-fostered communities have. But, that does not mean that fan-based communities can not exists in perpetuity. It only means they have to grow large enough to have a stable of members willing to take on the responsibility of continuity.

    My favorite example of this is a fan-based, fan-administered, fan-run, fan-organized, game community - http://www.twcenter.net. There are certainly other such sites, of course. The point is that this sort of "fan based" community can exist and can have a community large enough to sustain its continued existence.

    Note: I think it highly desirable, even necessary, for such communities to actively support ALL brokerages. That means they can not be havens which people "flee to", but havens that people come together as a community, for "positive" reasons that do not alienate existing brokerage-based communities, but act to actively support them.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @morkonan While there's always been some level of division, the poser community was much stronger and more cooperative in years past.

    I never agreed with the policy of not linking to other sites just because they were seen as competitors (even though I was required to enforce such policies as mod). It's silly especially in a community this small. Plus it's not like buying from one site is going to take a customer away. That customer is either going to buy from you or they're not. IMO, link sharing helps everyone grow their network and customer base in the long run.



  • @AmbientShade said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    @morkonan While there's always been some level of division, the poser community was much stronger and more cooperative in years past.

    /agreed

    Enthusiasm for a new form of personal entertainment and expression drove that in a large part, in my opinion. After all, there probably was even a "Chevrolet Chevette" fan community at one time... :) New "spirit" is always needed to energize communities and members who's fires may have faded or who may have even sucummed to mortality. In this community, new capabilities and tech can drive that in a very large way. (Example - Renderer choices/exporters/importers) But, "new" is key, here. A new figure, for instance, can only do so much, since the community has seen new figures fairly frequently. (ie: New assets no longer do very much.) New capabilities that are fairly dramatic always increase customer enthusiasm, helping to drive "community spirit" as long as the customer appreciates such things, though, and can access or make use of them.

    In short - It could be possible to "ride the wave" and take advantage of renewed interests present in a community in order to have the ground necessary to "plant a seed" in the community that can grow. For instance, the seed for an independent, yet fully complimentary, Poser community. :) Just gotta catch that wave... ;)

    PS - I fully agree with you on forum policy. That is exactly the sort of "smart policy" that fosters such communities and encourages community participation across lines of competition.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @morkonan The problem with independent communities is that they only last for as long as their creator(s) are interested in maintaining them.

    There have been a number of content stores/forums come and go over the years due primarily to their creators lack of interest or ability to sustain the place.

    Poser Addicts is a prime example of such a place. The owner seems to have lost interest in keeping it up to date, or something has happened to take him/them away from it for an extended period. And that isn't the only one its happened to. I was just looking at their forums the other night - no one has posted a word there since 2012. The last product posted in the store seems to be from 2014. Not picking on them or anything, it's just an example. And I've seen the same thing happen at several interest-group sites, outside of Poser. If it's a store, then the site is only going to last as long as the store is generating a profit for its owners. Once that drops below a certain threshold any forum that might be attached to it is going to go downhill along with the store.



  • @AmbientShade said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    ..Not picking on them or anything, it's just an example. And I've seen the same thing happen at several interest-group sites, outside of Poser.

    That's why I posted the TWCenter link. They've been going strong for a very long time and have been through several changes of "ownership" as well as controversy, yet it's still there, has a great reputation, close ties with the manufacturer of its "addiction" (Total War series of games), etc..

    There are other communities like that and, yes, handling transitions of power, hosting responsibility, costs, all of that, is very difficult. But, it becomes increasingly more difficult the smaller such a community is. For larger, well organized, communities, it's not such a chore. The trick is getting a community large enough to withstand those challenges without needing direct "corporate" support.

    Today, there are a number of possibilities for a community to incorporate "free" services that are stable enough to function as perpetual components. (Facebook, DeviantArt,Twitter, some other social network hosts) But, the responsibility of maintaining the registration, home-code (if no host support is avialable) and keeping forum software, if independent of a maintaining host, will still be there.

    When this sort of discussion comes up, I usually mention TWCenter, but they likely have a larger, more enthusiast-based community. However, at the "game fan level", they also have more turnover, broadly speaking. But, in their specific community, even gamers who no longer play any of that series are intensely loyal and continue to provide "content", in the way of discussion/comments/info posts that keep the community from becoming stale.

    In any social, enthusiast-based, community, content is king. If nothing new happens, nothing happens and people go elsewhere. In some older enthusiast communities, or larger ones, the "off-topic" forums/boards are what keep those communities thriving and gaining more loyal members. That's content-seeking behavior, even if nothing new is on the shelf for them to get enthusiastic about. :)

    In short - With a large enough community, the difficulties in transitions of legal ownership and maintenance responsibility can be minimized. In some cases, they can even be transparent to the community, at large.



  • @morkonan Nope, sorry, Renderosity gets 50% of every dollar I spend there. I'm just not willing to support their business practices.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D That just drives more content vendors away to other brands.



  • @AmbientShade Whatever, Shane. I don't spend money with unethical businesses. The stolen credit card debacles were quite enough to convince me.



  • @Glitterati3D said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    @AmbientShade Whatever, Shane. I don't spend money with unethical businesses. The stolen credit card debacles were quite enough to convince me.

    IIRC, DAZ's cut is traditionally deeper than Rendo's. (May have changed, I don't know.) And, you can't always blame a host for being hacked, either. These days, if someone wants to hack into something, they can. It all depends on how much effort they want to put into doing so.

    I'm not trying to speak in support of Rendo, as I do agree with a lot of the criticisms/issues mentioned in the thread. I just think that even if the community has valid points, that doesn't mean that everything about such a place can be equally criticized, that's all.

    I can't remember the technical details of the hack, at the moment. If anyone can, an info-PM would be appreciated. (Or post, if one prefers, doesn't matter.)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Rosity remains the largest broker of poser content by a large margin, and pretty much always has been, outside of daz. So when people refuse to shop there, they're hurting the poser content artists more than they are the store itself, and gives those vendors more reason to stop supporting poser. They're not going to change stores, because the store gets more traffic than any other poser broker. They'll just change which platform they build content for.
    That's how I see it anyway.



  • @Glitterati3D said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    The stolen credit card debacles were quite enough to convince me.

    Yes, I only use PayPal now for any purchases there for that very reason. Two new cards in less than 6 months . . . uh uh, not good business as far as I'm concerned.



  • @AmbientShade said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    @morkonan The problem with independent communities is that they only last for as long as their creator(s) are interested in maintaining them.

    There have been a number of content stores/forums come and go over the years due primarily to their creators lack of interest or ability to sustain the place.

    Poser Addicts is a prime example of such a place. The owner seems to have lost interest in keeping it up to date, or something has happened to take him/them away from it for an extended period. And that isn't the only one its happened to. I was just looking at their forums the other night - no one has posted a word there since 2012. The last product posted in the store seems to be from 2014. Not picking on them or anything, it's just an example. And I've seen the same thing happen at several interest-group sites, outside of Poser. If it's a store, then the site is only going to last as long as the store is generating a profit for its owners. Once that drops below a certain threshold any forum that might be attached to it is going to go downhill along with the store.

    Hi all,

    PoserAddicts still exists as a LEGACY product store, with whatever was last in there by the end of 2014. The store was started by me almost 14 years ago, and I picked up many great merchants along the way, and then invited many who had products which were very great back then for Poser, which were rolling off Renderosity into Clearances and included new products from them as well. Part of PoserAddicts was the fact that Royloo and several others who were once in PoserPros.

    Allen Forbes ran the store from 2010 onward, and did a great job doing it. He was a master at marketing and theme strategies and thus FemaSu 2011 and Andromeda were born as successful projects. But in the ensuing year, a huge rift between Poser and Daz Studio became increasingly apparent, and many content creators refused to support Daz Studio, or vice versa. We offered products for Daz Studio, and the makers didn't want to waste their time making Poser Compatibility Files for them, while no one bought the Daz Studio products if they were gung-ho Poser fans. It caused problems with content creators who decided later to go in one direction or another. Daz3D discovered many merchants at PoserAddicts who were skilled in DS and asked them to come on board at Daz3D which resulted in many of the best merchants at PoserAddicts who got their starts there to pull their entire stores out, including freebies and go exclusively to Daz3D. It was disheartening, although also a compliment to us that we paved the way for great merchants in the Industry, but our store lost many great people. And the split in loyalties with Daz Studio gaining popularity and Poser losing it, caused issues. Later the interest in the products waned and the store was spending more on bandwidth than it was making in profit. At some point we changed the payouts to 70/30 and 60/40, to try to get merchants interested, as opposed to Renderosity's 50/50 cut. Didn't work very well. Eventually Allen stopped managing the store as we couldn't afford to pay him off no-sales, it was unfair to him to keep fighting a losing battle with the Poser community. RNDA became the new home of Poser and we believed that PoserAddicts could remain a haven for Generation 2, Generation 3 and Generation 4 products since they all covered Poser Compatible items. Those products still work, and can be re-shaded to work in DS or Poser.

    The store now remains active only to host several products which cannot be sold at Renderosity or Daz due to the adult nature of them. And for Legacy items not available anywhere else.

    I was shocked when I saw that RDNA was selling out, and that it would go dead soon, and back then Allen and I offered PoserAddicts to be a replacement option and we posted in forums everywhere asking if anyone was interested. The answer from the Poser community was, they had Content Paradise and Renderosity and HiveWire, and they didn't need anymore. My support of the Poser Community goes back to my start with Poser 3, back in 1996, and in 2015 I removed Poserpedia.com, a huge wiki with poser information on it due to lack of visits or interest by the Poser community. I was on the Beta Testing team for Poser since MetaCreations owned the product, and in the last iteration of Poser, somehow they dropped me off their beta team and although they had my NDA - my account there went dead and none of the Smith Micro folks bothered to answer my emails and messages. I regularly worked on their German language release testing for each version. Half the Poser people I knew at Smith Micro were either laid off, fired or just disappeared. It was sending me an ominous message, and the sales figures at PoserAddicts were so miserable, that expending energy for no return and no enthusiasm from the Poser community and the Manufacturer itself just didn't cut it anymore. I felt like the Product I so loved and supported for so many years, had just given me the collective finger. And so I'm now redirecting my efforts to Daz3D and my upcoming new Male-Themed Product Store: MPE3D.

    Profotograf
    PoserAddicts LLC



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  • @morkonan It's not like there's anything at the DAZ store for Poser users, so I'm not sure why we'd even discuss them.

    Frankly, except for some deeply discounted old, old, old, still made for Poser items, I haven't shopped at DAZ in years.

    And, it wasn't ONE hack, it was 3 hacks. And Renderosity denied they were the source for MONTHS all the while replacement cards were getting hacked the day they were used there.

    So, no.



  • @AmbientShade said in RDNA Forums are gone. :(:

    Rosity remains the largest broker of poser content by a large margin, and pretty much always has been, outside of daz. So when people refuse to shop there, they're hurting the poser content artists more than they are the store itself, and gives those vendors more reason to stop supporting poser. They're not going to change stores, because the store gets more traffic than any other poser broker. They'll just change which platform they build content for.
    That's how I see it anyway.

    And that remains another Renderosity problem - quantity over quality.



  • @Glitterati3D

    It's not just that - it's all kinds of little things - The 'Rosity forum mods have been useless for years. A search function that is almost as bad as the one DAZ uses, and my personal pet peeve - dropping legacy content from the store. If they sold so much as 1 copy of a product, they have to keep it on the server, but they apparently don't want anyone else to buy it.

    My interests have changed over the years, and with the capabilities added to the last few versions of Poser, I have really gotten interested in legacy content. Since I am converting my scribblings to graphic novels, I need a wider variety of characters than are currently available. I've had a lot of fun using older figures, and would certainly like to add to my collection. Unfortunately, I can't.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D There's poor quality content at every site. Rosity isn't the only one to blame for that.