We need a hair shader like this for Poser ... Shader gurus?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    This is amazing for D/S users and I wanted to bring it to your attention. I don't know where Anestis Skitzis is going to market this quite frankly, but it is the best shader I've ever seen and you need to see how it works with older hair models as well as new. Look up this name on facebook. So ... here is the challenge. We need master shader creators for Superfly to come up with this ... since both render engines are basically PBR's this would be ground braking for Poser.

    image.jpg



  • Hair shaders are very dependent on the image used for the hair. One trick I have seen used is matching the scene lights to the highlights on the hair texture. I'd have to see several images of this model in different poses and camera angles to tell you weather or this works or is employing a fake trick.

    Way back in the Vicky 1 days I bought a character package that looked wonderful but when I started using it I noticed that the lips looked white like they had paint on them. This was the specular on the lips burned into the original texture photo's and the vendor had cleverly adjusted the lighting in his example renders to make it look like the speculars were coming from the lights in the scene. I was VERY disappointed in my purchase and started scrutinizing items with burned in speculars and shadows from that point on.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ghostship I'm not sure how iray shaders are built, but this person shows a variety of transmapped hair with this "universal shader". What I notice is the tone depth and natural looking sheen to the hair. IF this is authentic, I figured we could do the same for Poser and it would be a great addition. Probably using an EZskin like process, maintaining the original maps ... or at least transparency maps. Just a thought as I was looking over things at facebook.



  • @Boni Still would rely heavily on decent hair maps that did not have highlights or shadows burned into them as most hair maps do. The image maps have to come from photo's of real hair as well. Can't fake it with Photoshop painted hair as many hair texture vendors do.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    From what I see:
    Multi layered geometry with some very nice diffuse and transmaps.
    I am with ghosthip on this : Very Good Diffuse and transmap textures make the quality of these hairs.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    oddly, the information I have been gathering is no maps at all. I am skeptical, but this is a trusted DAZ developer who already has a skin shader that is well received.



  • @Boni No this is normal transmapped hair. You can see the stray hairs... Those are real hairs from a photo. A little low res I would ad.



  • @Boni The best example I've seen so far of completely neutral hair maps are the ones that @biscuits uses for his/her hair models. I don't own any yet but the renders would indicate that there are no highlights or shadows burned into those maps.



  • Back in 2015 bagginsbill posted some FireFly shaders in response to a "should hair be anistropics in material " query over at Renderosity. Maybe, bearing in mind his first response on that thread, with Superfly it's a good time to look again.

    (P.S. To me the texture on the hair Boni posted looks hand-painted. )



  • @3dcheapskate said in We need a hair shader like this for Poser ... Shader gurus?:

    Back in 2015 bagginsbill posted some FireFly shaders in response to a "should hair be anistropics in material " query over at Renderosity

    I use a variation of this shader on all hair models. BUT, I often have to rework hair textures. Well, I say "often", but it's usually "always." It's actually rarer that I buy a hair model and I don't have to rework or replace the textures than not... (I almost always only buy hair, these days, unless there's something "cool" on sale somewhere. I suck at hair modeling. :) )

    I looked at a few of his examples. Nice. But, working with a shader setup like BB's and having really good hair textures suitable for it can usually net one pretty decent results. (Firefly, btw, don't know Superfly/Cycles, yet.) I imagine that if someone took the time to work with some hair shader setups for Superfly/Cycles, the results could be similar or better.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    SuperFly-specific nodes can repeat a specular but use different normals on each. Which means it might be possible to get a proper shifted highlight, instead of just a bigger, smeared highlight as I did in that other thread.

    I will investigate ...



  • @Boni - found afew more of his UniversalHair Shader images on DA
    Not so impressed with this - http://as-dimension-z.deviantart.com/art/Rayn-Bobcut-Hair-Universal-Hair-Shader-662554638
    But I love this one - http://as-dimension-z.deviantart.com/art/Galene-Hair-Universal-Hair-Shader-662498149

    As he says in response to a comment on the Galene hair picture, it's a combination of shader and lighting. It sounds to me as if it's using procedurals to create the multiple individual strands in different shades of the base hair colour.



  • @3dcheapskate

    In my experience, it's always more difficult to get a good specular effect on blonde base-textures. I usually have to use a custom map, reduce eccentricity a lot (Whatever reduces "spread.") and crank it up to make the speculars "pop." Otherwise, I get "blow-out" where the spec blooms too much without some better way to constrain it, depending on the mesh. (Firefly. Prob easier in Superfly.)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    It's working, I think. (SuperFly double highlight) Here are some very prelim and quick renders at various angles with light and camera. I'm using P10 Roxie Hair here.

    0_1487004943103_H1.jpg

    0_1487004946641_H2.jpg

    0_1487004954495_H3.jpg

    0_1487004958332_H4.jpg

    0_1487004961821_H5.jpg



  • @bagginsbill That is certainly looking promising!

    Amanda


  • Poser Ambassadors

    This isn't what I'd suggest you use. It's just what I used so far. I started with the FireFly version and then added a SuperFly AnisotropicBsdf node to produce the second highlight. I'm showing this in case others want to experiment along with me.

    0_1487005200923_SH1.png

    The User_Defined value plugged into the Tangent channel of the AnisotropicBsdf is doing the shift on the highlight. I have no idea if I'm using that correctly.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Argh. Obviously I'm not using it right. When light hits from below, I get artifacts.

    0_1487005519526_H6-Wrong.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I must say this is a great start! If we (and by "we" I mean the node gurus not me) can set up a master mat file where all we need to do is drop in some necessary maps or maybe not ... it would be fantastic!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ghostship Agreed on Biscuits' hair. She is one of the best in the business and I've told her as much several times.



  • @bagginsbill This is looking very impressive already! Definitely worth some investigation!


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