How large is the poser worldspace?

  • I just purchase 3-D-C's Jumpgate and am trying to set up a scene with it and Coflek-Gnorg - Space Sphere Evolved 1 .. I have z trans my camera to about 4560 to capture the entire jump gate and scale the space sphere up to 750% (any less and just renders the outside of the sphere, not the scene inside it). Anyway, when I try to render the scene, posers background (just plain color, no images) is clipping the sphere. Have set my hither to 0 and yon to various amounts (up to an amazing 10000000000000) with same results. Should poser be doing this clipping?

    Yes I could scale everything smaller (even though the gate is at only 25%). But just wondering why this is happening at all. Bug or am I just trying too large a scene.

    0_1486927362423_Jump Gate.jpg

  • you might have to adjust hither on your camera

  • Hither won't make a difference as it's the far elements being clipped, not the close.

    Giving a number in Z trans is meaningless without units. I use cm, and have happily rendered scenes that look out about 500m or more, so a Z trans of 50,000 (and then to the environments sphere/sky dome) with no clipping.

    I don't think Poser has an absolute figure for world size (or if it does, it's pretty big). The nature of your clipping does suggest camera, but what happens if you:

    1. increase scale of the construct or make it invisible all together
    2. decrease the scale of your background sphere (assuming it's a sphere)
    3. move your camera closer to the gate model?

    BTW, there may well be a limit on yon settings for a camera. Entering a number above that limit will simply give the maximum. IF that is the case, option 3 will show it up. I'm not sure that such a limit exists, though. The manual gives no indication of a maximum limit.

  • I also just noticed the clipped edge looks geometry driven. What does the scene look like in lit wireframe?

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Select the camera, and increase its yon value.

  • The OP has already said they've adjusted hither and yon to large amounts. Unless they've adjusted the wrong camera... done that before myself.

  • Which Poser version do you use?
    Is the effect the same in Preview and Render?
    Your units are set to what?

  • Units are set to feet. I've changed them to Poser Native , Inches, etc. Same effect. Wireframe display shows the whole sphere. Tried the scene in 3 versions of poser (7, Pro 2012, Pro 11), with same results in each version. Tried rendering with normals forward for sphere. 4500 Feet = 423 Poser Native On Camera ZTran.

    Construct? If you mean the poser prop construct, it is not in the scene at all. Also moving the camera to around 3500 gets rid of the clipping.

    Rescaling - as mentioned yes I can rescale everything smaller (thus moving the camera Z trans in closer anything around the 3500 Feet / PN - 405 mark or closer seems to fix ) and it renders fine.

    Also Just to make sure it wasn't the space spheres geometry, I loaded the default ball prop rescaled it to match the sphere. Same issue.

    The scene is clipping with posers background. I can change the background color, or attach a background image and that is what is seen in the area being clipped. So I must have hit a max distance for the camera yon or something (Shrug?).

    This is only happening in firefly.. Doing a preview or Superfly render the scene renders fine with no clipping.

  • "BTW, there may well be a limit on yon settings for a camera. Entering a number above that limit will simply give the maximum. IF that is the case, option 3 will show it up. I'm not sure that such a limit exists, though. The manual gives no indication of a maximum limit.

    I think I'm just hitting a maximum on the Camera Yon of 100000 PN or 860000 Feet as I can change the maximum to above that, save and reload the scene and it has reset to 100000 / 860000 again. As to camera, I have changed the one I am using to render (Auxillary). But has same effect with both main & auxillary, have not tested others. Also baffles me as to why just in firefly, and only on rendering. Preview dispay (already mentioned render) is fine also.

    Oh well.

    Thanks to everyone for all the sugguestions.

  • Hmmm... if you select the background (in the material room) and go to the properties tab and untick 'visible', does it go away? I've never tried that, but it might work.

  • 860,000ft is the set limit in the camera parameters tab. It can be changed. Mine's 26,212,802cm (laughs), which is 860,000ft. I just changed the main camera in Poser Pro 2014 to 50,000,000cm, would it up to 49,000,000 and it didn't complain. I haven't tried saving and reloading, though. So, maybe try going into the parameter settings triangle for yon and boosting it?

  • Yes I've changed to above the set maximum in the parameters settings window , no change. Is what I mentioned is resetting on a save/reload.

    Also never knew posers background had a visibility (thanks for that) but it didn't help either, background shows through in firefly render if it is checked to be visible or unchecked.

  • OK, last offering, if using IDL, try turning off 'visible in raytracing' in the background parameters. Maybe even turn them all off, seeing as you don't want it. Not sure it will do anything, but it might given that you can colour it and have that change in the render.
    Oh, and what does the vendor say in the 'read me'? Anything on render settings? Sometimes they do.

  • :) Thanks tried that, to no effect. lol. I've also tried removing backfacing polys, turned poly smoothing on/off, etc. No luck. It's ok, as I've just rescaled everything and moved the camera to fix the problem. Just thought it unusual, as this is the first time I've ever encountered it.

  • It looks like a hard-coded limit on the camera yon. If you increase the limit, it's preserved in the saved file, but upon reloading it's put back to 860000.062500 feet maximum. It also reasserts the 'Force limits' checkbox. Whether this is a bug, or a deliberate feature to stop Firefly losing its tiny mind I couldn't say.

    Poser may not be the ideal solution for rendering the depths of infinite space. :)

    (Edit: 860000.062500 feet is 100000 PNU, which sounds like an arbitrary figure to me...)

  • "It looks like a hard-coded limit on the camera yon"

    Thats what I was thinking. Just seems strange that it only affects firefly. Then again, preview, firefly and superfly are all different rendering engines.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    I knew about this limit but didn't recall the actual value, and it may be different from one version of Poser to another. Tom (Dreamlandmodels) ran into it when he was creating a dome around his entire "town" with a river passing through. But when we were testing the limit was much lower. If I recall correctly, he settled on a dome only 2 "miles" across.

    As to why it's there at all, nobody knows, as it isn't even mentioned in the manual. The notion that it isn't worth drawing a human that is 15 miles away is valid, but doesn't apply to things like mountain ranges or sky domes.

    As to why it's not in SuperFly, that's easy. Because SuperFly wasn't written 15 years ago by a guy who just wanted to play virtual Barbie.

  • I got the same results in Poser 6 and Poser 7, for what it's worth. I can't run Poser 4 any more without invoking XP mode, and I don't have it installed on this machine.

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