Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?



  • Hi folks,

    I was wondering if there was a good product like Facegen which would work with V4 and M4 in Poser, please?

    Glen.



  • @Glen85 What ever you do don't get the product that Daz sells. Total waste of money.



  • What's that, Facegen? I would only buy something if it worked for Poser with V4 and M4. I'm tired of all the interesting stuff I keep finding which doesn't, but there we are.



  • Strangely, minutes after posting this, I was asked if I could create a character which looked like Lana Del Rey... how odd is that?! Looks like I could definitely use said product!



  • The product you want to steer clear of is called Faceshop 8



  • Definitely don't buy "Faceshop" .anything.. I bought three iterations, hoping that each would yield better results. They all yielded the same crappy, mangled, unsymmetrical meshes, without exception. You know what they say about repetitions and insane people expecting something different each time...

    On Facegen: Facegen, itself, with the development kit (whatever it is called) can be used with any human head mesh. What one has to do is to take the desired mesh and morph it to fit within the constraints of the default head. (The "meanface.") Then, the resulting morphed head is substituted into the program using the developer kit and you proceed from there.

    This is all based on old info, however, and likely does not apply to the DAZ version, only the version sold directly by Singular Inversions (ie: facegen.com).

    Interestingly enough, the program is not limited only to faces. Entire bodies can be morphed like this. However, the work required to get that set up is extensive. I've got a copy of a workthrough someone posted and SI put up on their site, somewhere around here. But, it's off their site, now, I think. Still, given what the program does, it seems likely it still has that capability.

    SI's somewhat proprietary face modeling software has had iterations in popular games (The "Elder Scrolls" series) and, IIRC, portions of it are used in Poser's face room.

    Facegen, the stand-alone version and the necessary developer kit are not inexpensive purchases. IMO, one would likely be better served learning a decent, free or inexpensive, 3D modeling app and then doing the morphs by hand. But, for quick fabrication of heads from a photo-ref, Facegen (stand-alone, I haven't heard anything about the DS app) is probably the best there is out there.



  • @morkonan This is the point that @Vilters pops in and points us to his Poser-to-Blender-to-Poser tute on YouTube. LOL



  • but seriously, You can open images in Blender and do a sort of rotoscoping kind of modeling that should work for face morphing.



  • I also tried faceshop and was well unimpressed! I can't afford facegen so I am left with dials and blender, and I'm not very good at it, just ask Cher :)

    My current workflow is, starting with a default V4, apply a texture as working with the base texture is just creepy LOL

    I have a one sided square prop that I position in front of her head and use the face cam. I load up as near full on non expressive photo of my subject I can find and then scale the square until the eyes line up with V4. I animate the transparency of the photo so I can quickly select the square and tune-in / out the image and then try and get as close as I can with the dials.

    I do the same with the profile and keep switching back and forth until I'm happyish.

    I then export the head into blender and do any sculpting tweaks, bring that back in as a morph target

    If I'm happy I save my file then spawn morph targets for the head, neck upper and lower jaws, record any z,x and y transforms for the eyes and jaws and create an INJ pose, edit that to apply the z,x and y transforms, Save new version.

    Load up new V4 and apply the INJ apply texture and render.

    Rinse and Repeat until changes always make it worse. Go with it and tell people when I post who it is supposed to be :)

    Amanda



  • @ghostship said in Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?:

    but seriously, You can open images in Blender and do a sort of rotoscoping kind of modeling that should work for face morphing.

    Any decent 3D app can be used to create custom faces. It's a simple workflow. Set up a standard 2D primitive, load up your reference picture.. start pushing verts.

    There are two fundamental issues that must first be conquered, though. The primary one is good reference pics. Without a set of good reference pics, there's no darn way one can easily morph a realistic likeness. Sure, you can get close, if rendered at the same angle as the reference, with low lights... and an exact replica texture... and..

    If one has great ref pics that are all to scale and taken from cardinal directions, then that's a perfect situation. Fortunately/unfortunately those things are not easy to come by for most celebrities, despite however-many movies and shows they've been in. A "neutral face" ref pic of ANYONE AT ALL is even more difficult to find. :) 3dsk, as most know, is the "go to" shop for generic reference pic sets. Though, since the last time I checked, they've changed their subscription model. Remember when you paid for a period of access and not by the gig? Those were the days, I guess. :)

    The second is the base mesh has to allow for what you need. That is a serious issue for Poser users, since we're bound by the geometry of the base figure we're using. And, that's one reason V4 is very nice for that, since it has lots of density there. With Sub-D and the ability to create normal maps, I suppose lighter-weight figures could be serviceable, as well.

    Facegen is a much better bit of software than anything out there like it. BUT, at best, it basically is good for the "gross" work of general face-shaping and the like, it seems. Many things rely on a good reference texture in order to be perfect and then skimp a bit on the geometry. For the money, for someone who doesn't need rapid results in bulk, sitting down with a 3D app and pushing verts by hand is probably the best option.

    PS - Just a pet peeve on "likenesses" - Most producers rely on caricatures for their faces to be recognizable as a particular person. IOW, the dominant features of the face are exaggerated, with two or three features being exaggerated together, but their relative relationships kept normal, so the face has that "certain look" of someone. Noses, lips, chin, cheekbones.. sometimes jawline.. that's pretty much what people focus on. And, when they don't pay attention to anything else, the end result often look "off." And, welcome to the Uncanny Valley. :)



  • I just wanted to post this as a fantastic example of caricature work that is entirely stylistically consistent:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/5xS54

    More great examples: http://aplus.com/a/lance-phan-animation-portrait-art?no_monetization=true

    Just awesome stuff!



  • @morkonan They're quite good, but I wonder what they would look like from a different angle from the original photo


  • Poser Ambassadors

    If you want to create a new face for a figure, you probable want to "adapt" the rest of the body to that face too.

    You need an old body for an old face and a young body under a young face.

    This video shows how you can improve all Poser meshes using FBM and HD morphs created in Blender. (or equivalent software)

    PS : Video1 of the series shows the correct export-import settings between both apps. Poser => Blender => Poser



  • @amethystpendant said in Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?:

    @morkonan They're quite good, but I wonder what they would look like from a different angle from the original photo

    Exactly!

    The thing is, the creator has escaped that problem by using a particular style that makes recognition easy, but allows for creative license in caricature.

    This is an issue that only 3D artists face. A caricature artist or painter only needs to produce a likeness that is recognizable from one angle, with whatever light there is represented, in a 2D format.

    This is my favorite painting ever... Well, at least for me, today, right at this moment: http://www.wallpaperawesome.com/wallpapers-awesome/wallpapers-famous-painting-artist-painter-brush-oil-on-canvas-awesome/z-wallpaper-johannes-vermeer-girl-with-a-pearl-earring-original.jpg (Naked link to direct wallpaper image, just in case anyone else likes it as much as I do!)

    OK, so, could Vermeer have done this in 3d? With the guy's artistic skill, I have no doubt he could have produced a 3D model that was lifelike.

    Now, could any of us "Poser Modelers" do that? Well, I think many could come up with a good representation that was identifiable from this, one, angle... (Some have tried and several good 3D artists have done so.)

    But, from this one picture, it takes a very good understanding of facial structure in order to produce a 3D likeness that is accurate and doesn't look like crap when viewed from other angles. And, most common 3D artists/Poserfans would need a slew of good reference photos to achieve it. (An interesting "challenge," perhaps?)

    When looking for reference photos and achieving that "exact" recognizable look, I'm often astonished to see another photo, taken at the same time from another angle, that has subtle differences that "throw off" everything learned about the face from the previous reference photo... It's amazing how much a human face can change, even some very minor bits, between one photo and the next. There are 40+ facial muscles and some people even have fewer.. Then, there's fat deposits, wrinkles, unique bits and piece of emphasis that aren't present in any other face, relationships, bone structure differences, issues presented by "artistic lighting", yada yada yada... It's a mind-blowingly complex thing and entirely wonderful at the same time. :)

    @vilters said in Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?:

    If you want to create a new face for a figure, you probable want to "adapt" the rest of the body to that face too.

    You need an old body for an old face and a young body under a young face.

    This is one reason why many "realistic" facial sculpts included in morph packages use both the neck and head regions as well as associated child groups. (teeth/tongue/eye repositions.) However, few do full body sculpts, due to legacy program issues with conforming/other clothing items and such. (Not really "that" big of an issue, these days, but artists still rarely touch anything below the neck. That's one of my biggest gripes with current commercial "custom sculpts" for Poser figures - They don't bother doing the rest of the body as it should be done! I'd never pay good money for someone's "dial-spins." I only buy character packs for the textures.) There are caveats, however, in doing certain sorts of sculpts/figures and, because of some uses of popular rendering software, most capable and talented 3D artists won't touch certain sculpts with a ten-foot Wacom tablet. For good reason.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ghostship said in Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?:

    @morkonan This is the point that @Vilters pops in and points us to his Poser-to-Blender-to-Poser tute on YouTube. LOL

    Gosh, I had the same in mind LMAO


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Tja, a lot of end customers are looking for options?
    So?
    Why not help them?



  • @vilters My comments were not meant to be be mean. You do fine work and I've gotten much from your videos.



  • @ghostship said in Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?:

    @vilters My comments were not meant to be be mean. You do fine work and I've gotten much from your videos.

    /agreed Very much so.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in Facegen Equivalent for Poser and Gen 4 Figures?:

    Tja, a lot of end customers are looking for options?
    So?
    Why not help them?

    Tony, I appreciate your help , you know.I just find it funny that I thought the same than ghostship. "Where is Tony with his video tut? " :)


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