"It's all a matter of scale, really." - Gulliver

  • OK, so, everyone knows about the "scale" controversy in Poser, right? If not: http://www.morphography.uk.vu/scaleobj.html

    But, here's the thing - Did Poser 2014 get even smaller vs other versions, like the one I used to use, Poser 2012?

    Example: http://i.imgur.com/XMSX9RD.jpg

    On the left, we see Michael 4 posed with Fireangel's measuring stick, which is a fairly accurate, quick, way to measure things... pre-Poser-2014. It obeyed the standard Poser PNU convention, as far as I know. I also used other measuring tools in Poser 2012 and, for the most part, they stuck with the old conventions.

    As you can see, M4 measures up to his standard, agreed-upon, universally declared height of just over 6', almost 6'1" or so.

    On the right, we have M4, but with a measure that has been verified as being correct as far as Poser 2014's "Measuring Tool" is concerned... which is only 93% of Poser 2012's "scale."

    In Poser 2014, M4 gained half a foot of height. Pretty impressive for not working out much and not being entertained by The Spanish Inquisition...

    The left cube is measured at 1' per side in 2014 using the measuring tools. In P2012 standards, it falls short of that... On the Right, it's exactly at 1' according to the measuring stick set for P2014 standards when rendered in this P2012 rendering. (Used external objects and checked them against the stored internal props, just to be sure they didn't get rescaled on export.)

    So, what gives?

    The issue should be pretty obvious - If a model was modeled to "fit" the old standards using actual measurements in the modeling application, it's now 7% larger than it should be. For instance, if I create a doorway in an application and have set up my measuring system to correspond to Poser's internal references, that system is now going to have to get reset. And, if I have products in my runtime produced that way, they're now going to load up as "Family Size" in Poser 2014, with a bit of rescaling that has to be done.

    Not an issue for a chair, really. But, rescaling a very large, pre-loaded, exterior-view neighborhood scene with oodles of individual parented props? Kind of a headeache...

    Advice? Or, am I just wrong and need to get a banana?

    (Background: I loaded up some old architectural interior models I was crapping up for Poser and had "verified" the measurements of a very long time ago. And.. they were ginormously out-of-scale when I used the measuring tools on them in P2014.)

  • Using sub-D shrinks things a bit. Maybe that is what you are seeing?

  • @ghostship

    Nope, not at all. No sub-d on anything. Besides, the box prim is Poser's and, IIRC, those are split-vert objects, or used to be.

    PS - Camera is "Front Camera" so perspective issues didn't get in the way.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    I don't think yr wrong but you can have a banana anyway. ;)
    I've noticed the same thing my self when using GoZ. Something just not right. But this is in P11. lol

  • DAZ figures have always been 'heroic'. Use the internal measurements rather than an external stick. Import a plane primitive, set to the ground and then translate said plane until it touches the top of M4's head and measure the result on the Y axis. My units are centimetres, and a stock M4 with feet firmly planted on the ground measures 197cm, well over 6'1". If you want to check, you could also try loading a PICK doorway. These were all made to real world dimensions, and most characters barely fit through them. This has been the case with Poser as far back as I can remember.

  • @piersyf

    "Heroic" scale/proportion is an artistic term that refers to the relationships between body regions, not just "scale" or "size." A "heroically proportioned" character could be three-feet tall. Though, your comment regarding an idealized human male height is valid. Still, M4 is not supposed to be almost six and a half feet tall. :) That'd make V4 an exceptionally tall woman.

    If you notice in the Morphography link, M4 is not supposed to be "well over 6'1" at the time and Poser versions that page was considering. There's a two inch difference between Poser 5 and 6. But, I'm showing what appears to be an extra few inches "added" by Poser 11's reckoning.

    But, it didn't surface when dealing with M4. I noticed what appeared to be some scale differences between work I did for previous versions of Poser when compared in P11 using Poser's "new" measuring tools. I was ecstatic I'd finally be able to get a real handle on Poser's measuring units for accurate "realistic" models. Then... a 1 foot cube didn't measure 1 foot like I thought it did and I jumped down the rabbit hole trying to figure out why. :)

    I've got some other tools for previous versions of Poser and I'll be testing scale differences later today, just to be sure I haven't goofed or twisted myself around a falsehood. :) I could be completely wrong or just "not right." I've used a few tools that could still be outside of an acceptable margin of error for me, so I'll double down and try to shave the margin for error down, substantially.

    (I no longer have P6, I don't think, so I can't compare with it or P7, just 2012&2014.)

  • Poser Ambassadors

    It looks like the two measuring sticks are set to different scales.

    One is using the Poser 5-era definition that 1 PNU = 96 inches.
    The other is using the Poser 6-era definition that 1 PNU = 103.2 inches.

    Either way, the figure is loaded the same. It's the measuring stick that has changed.

    Doesn't the stick have a slider that picks which system you want? And if it does, did you move that slider?

  • Poser Ambassadors

    I found that ruler in my runtimes.

    I'm not seeing what you're showing. I load M4 and the ruler in Poser 11 and I see 6 foot 1.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Ah ha. I read your OP more carefully

    "On the right, we have M4, but with a measure that has been verified as being correct as far as Poser 2014's "Measuring Tool" is concerned... which is only 93% of Poser 2012's "scale.""

    I'm assuming you changed the scale to agree with 103.2 inch per PNU that Poser actually uses.

    You are mistakenly assuming this is the new scale for Poser Pro 2014. It isn't.

    You changed the ruler.

    Read the original discussion about units again. In making the ruler agree with PP2014, you changed it to match the modern size 103.2 inches per PNU. But the whole point of this ruler was to IGNORE THE OFFICIAL SIZE and continue to use the now-15-year-old size that everybody got used to in Poser 4 and 5.

    The rule was NOT matching Poser 2012 scale - it never did that. It retains the "incorrect" scaling associated with Poser 5. Your assumption that it changed after 2012 is incorrect. It changed in 2006 or thereabouts.

    You mentioned 93% - yes because 96 inches divided by 103.2 inches is .930232558

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Go into Poser 2012 (or any other version after Poser 5)

    Load M4 and the Poser box. Change your Poser Display Unit to Inches (thus providing all your dials in inches.) Raise the y-translate dial until the box is just touching M4's top of head.

    It will say 78.25 inches and it will say this in every Poser since Poser 6. This does not agree with the ruler unless you "correct" the ruler, which is incorrect for 11 years now.


    Alternatively you may be in the camp that argues M4 and V4 are not stupid sized and it was Curious Labs that made a dumbass mistake and declared, for no good reason, that the size of one PNU was different from 96 inches, thus making all existing content considerably oversized. In which case, ignore the Poser measurements and just keep using that ruler.

  • @bagginsbill
    Any chance you could share that body scaling script you wrote for Gen4 figures?

  • Since this thread was resurrected:

    I wanted to say that my assumption was wrong in my posts, here. I was mistaken regarding the date of the measurment change, the accuracy of the prop used, and I got my saved test files confused, which led me to the wrong conclusion.

    In my defense, for the above and not making this statement earlier, shortly after making this post I ended up at the Emergency Room, underwent emergency surgery and a hospital stay as well as uncomfortable recovery at home for awhile... By the time I was able to more easily return to "postin' on teh interwebz," this thread had long died and I didn't want to thread-necro it. :)

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @noobalien said in "It's all a matter of scale, really." - Gulliver:

    Any chance you could share that body scaling script you wrote for Gen4 figures?

    I never finished packaging it. It uses multiple library files that are not organized for distribution yet. It also needs some additional functionality to be useful for figures that I don't have. And it has a few bugs.

    Is something like that still not available elsewhere?

  • @bagginsbill said in "It's all a matter of scale, really." - Gulliver:

    Is something like that still not available elsewhere?

    I have a couple from pythonmonkeys of ages past, but they've been orphaned and don't work correctly/properly with the latest version of poser. The results are somewhat unpredictable. (crashes/hangs/corruptions/explosions/aliens/etc)