Poser should repeat one of DAZ's smarter commercial moves



  • p.s. the quote comes from here. which also has their overall sales figures.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/4053983-smith-micro-softwares-smsi-ceo-bill-smith-q4-2016-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

    I also want to apologize if the above sounded alarmist. I just hope Poser stays around as I have invested much time in it recently. That is relative of course. I have only been doing 3d rendering for under 2 yrs. now.



  • @david_macrae

    People have been predicting the demise of Poser since version 2 or so... possibly earlier than that.
    20 years or so after its first release, it is still here.

    Corporate restructuring is nothing new, not even in Posers history.



  • @morkonan No need to apologize for the length. How Poser can be best for its users is interesting. Well, except to people who're weary of the subject, I'm sure. :)

    @vilters I do get that impression.

    @david_macrae Thanks for that. I would expect it's all the more reason for SM to try something risky,, but I understand the argument against it too.



  • @shrvdavid I kinda of figured that. I hope it continues. It is my favorite app to animate in. I personally love Poser. (I have been learning Blender and Carrara for modeling etc.) And I know ver 10 does not phone home so it would keep working. I just really love the new comic and geometric tools in ver 11. They hold their own against any app out there. I also feel one does not always need a big behemoth app that does everything. I like targeted apps.

    I think it does come down to marketing. First Daz does have the best online store. I find it almost painful to search and shop at content paradise. Also everyone always points out that daz is free... But is it really... How many plugins do I have to buy to do what I do... dynamics.. keymate graph mate for animation.. bullet physics... cloth room.. etc. Is it really any cheaper. Poser also has debut. So it does seem the difference is in marketing and I wonder as someone said is if that is how they are targeting their audience.



  • For those who don't want to register to read the entire financial report, it goes on to say, "nnnGraphics revenue was $5.1 million, a decrease of $800,000 or 13.5%. From a non-GAAP perspective, total year 2016 loss per share was $0.72 as compared to a loss per share of $0.02 in 2015. From a balance sheet perspective, our cash position was $2.2 million at December 31, 2016, a decrease of $10.7 million from the beginning of the year." Yikes!



  • Beta tapes were better than VHS, but they got out marketed. Amiga computing produced very good machines in their heyday, competing very well with contemporary Apple and IBM machines, but even an Amiga fan-zine said that if Amiga won the contract to advertise KFC, they'd call it 'warm dead bird'. Poser lifted the marketing game when Chuck came on board, but it may have already been too late. I don't really know what to suggest, but maybe something like an official Poser youtube channel with lots and lots of tutorials to showcase what the program can do? I know Chuck did the intro stuff, the Poser 101's, but they're very much introductions (hence 101), but where are the 201's and 301's and the master classes?
    Blender's documentation is horrid, but the video tutes are EVERYWHERE... and some are even good. An official (as in vetted) Poser channel couldn't hurt, and promoting the capabilities of the software is very much within the purview of the marketing department.



  • @piersyf I can't give you 2 upvotes for your post so here you go! I would like to ad that they need to identify Poser artists that can really make beautiful art with the program instead of some of the stuff I see that looks like it was done in Poser 4.



  • @piersyf Blender is now going commercial on tutorials



  • @ghostship There are some very advanced renders over at the official Poser Gallery run by Smith Micro.



  • @RobZhena said in Poser should repeat one of DAZ's smarter commercial moves:

    For those who don't want to register to read the entire financial report, it goes on to say, "nnnGraphics revenue was $5.1 million, a decrease of $800,000 or 13.5%.

    With the note that 2015 saw a Poser release, likely associated with an effect effect both on revenue and on cost. 2016 was a year without such. Revenue is one thing, profit is something different.
    Short term bookkeeping does not go well with multi-year product cycles.

    Continuing on this, the expected upturn of results for end of 2017 could suggest Poser 12 and 12 Pro are going ahead.



  • @F_Verbass no however Moho (New anime studio) was released in 2016 with a big marketing push.

    I just went over to the moho forum and it looks like they also got rid of the creator of that software.



  • @meshbox DAZ has mastered the "first taste is free" approach. You do need to buy morphs to use some add-ons, not not all. Hivewire took a similar approach to introducing Dawn and Dusk.

    Oh yes, I wouldn't disagree that DAZ has a good business model for itself. I just don't think its a good one for vendors, because DAZ simply eats too much margin from the vendor to pay for their marketing costs.



  • @meshbox I have wondered about that. Some vendors have become Daz-exclusive or Daz-primarily. I assume the number of sales makes up for the smaller margins.



  • DAZ3D does not have the cachet as a go-to place for Poser content - right now, users will have to jump through hoops to convert their content to use inside Poser. What I can personally testify is that other sources of human figure content are useable in Poser - from Adobe's Mixamo, from AutoDesk Character Generator, and from Makehuman and ManuelBastioniLabs plug-ins via Blender3D. Or make your own from scratch (harder !). So, it appears that Poser itself is becoming less of an entry-level hobby tool, and instead a mid-level tool for use with other software.



  • @willshetterly said in Poser should repeat one of DAZ's smarter commercial moves:

    @meshbox I have wondered about that. Some vendors have become Daz-exclusive or Daz-primarily. I assume the number of sales makes up for the smaller margins.

    I think its a complex situation.

    We don't know if all vendors are treated equally when it comes to margins. Some might be receiving higher than advertised percentages or some other form of kickback. Just looking at the percentages only doesn't tell the whole story.

    Clearly, some are getting regularly promoted, and others aren't. That makes a huge difference. Given DAZ formula, they aren't going to promote anything that isn't exclusive because they don't have an extra 20-25% of vendor margin to spend on it.

    I know from some brokerages that the way they measure product viability is different. Certain products have a short viable 'full price' lifespan, but after a while, they become bargain bin. How that affects brokerages (who don't own the product) differs from those that do own the product. Here is an analogy of how I see it (this is the rated G version):

    Some holiday sales promoters sell baby chicks and bunnies around Easter time. These chicks and bunnies are young and cute, and are only valuable within the context of the holiday promoters while they are young and cute - in fact, a very narrow scope of their usefulness. Come Monday, chicks and bunnies go into the bargain bin, and new fuzzy critters go on sale on Tuesday. Yet the holiday promoters expect to take an oversized bite long after that most profitable time, and provide only the most minimum of reseller level service after that. There are huge negative effects:

    • You get a system that 'firehoses' out the sort of content that works well for this business model
    • You end up with vendors not realizing that they could actually make a living from their design work
    • It creates a system in which some brokerages see any independent use of their technology as competition, locking out third parties, destroying 'good' competition, and encouraging vendors to co-opt each other's ideas (ie not respecting the 'art' and treating it as commoditized)

    Clearly, our customers want to just get some good stuff to work with, and they may not care if a vendor stops creating because of commoditization . A free product like DAZ Studio has a fantastic message - free really sells. I also am localizing a free product called Valentina Studio, and their free version provides a great 'upsell' to their other products.

    So I won't support a system that I view as anti-creative and abusive. If people like my products, then they will come to where I sell them, like Content Paradise or the improving Mirye Software site.



  • @meshbox Commoditisation is correct. The creations are treated as normal goods with shelf-life.