Project e

  • @Glitterati3D i wrote a long and very blunt reply to your posts but chose to delete so as not to fight but suffice to say your reasoning does not make any sense to me whatsoever.

  • @KittyBrown That's fair. Just expressing my thoughts. Didn't expect anyone to agree nor disagree.

    I just don't see the potential.

    Look, I didn't say it was bad. Hell, it's not. Everyone says they don't use new figures because of their investment in V4.

    Erogenesis listened to that argument and provided a solution. That's not a bad thing. He's addressing his customer's needs.

    But, given the two sets of facts, it limits the clothing aftermarket. Those facts are:

    1. a superior rigged figure that will be used to show off that rigging, not hide it under layers of clothing, and
    2. a vendor who is addressing what his customers say they need.

    That's not bad - and I didn't say it was.

    We did the same thing with V4WM by giving the users the ability to convert their existing library. There never was a clothing aftermarket for V4WM. That wasn't bad, nor was it negative.

    It just WAS.

  • @rtamesis Lali IS V4 - a morph for V4. She wears V4 clothing.

  • If PE's zero pose has her feet flat on the floor, shoe conversion should be easy in the fitting room as I described for converting G3F shoes to Pauline and G2F.

  • Lol, I appreciate the compliment glitter, but don't worry PE is not a massive brain-splitting system of muscles, its just a 'well thought-out Poser figure' really. What is complex about her doesn't need to be the vendor's bother. How the JCMs are programmed will remain in PE's rig, clothes just need the JCMs. PE was complicated to create, design, some of the design choices were difficult, a bunch of folks have been strategising with me about the UV maps, the base shape, the bone structure, the rigging. A lot of planning went into this. But you folks don't have to worry about all that once she's out. Its just a really pretty Poser figure that bends nicely... and more.

    The V4 conversion only really comes from the donor, but the mannequins are actually there for vendors to make their clothing if they want. Vendors can also choose to just redo their old V4 products, as long as they are, like you said some time back, of decent standard. Mannequins should be able to do most of the work for you, depending on the type of clothing item you are working on, you might need to do some adjustments obviously.

    But a nice pair of jeans can also be used to show off PE's rigging. So does a T Shirt. PE is also a pretty face with handles and stuff, I hope there will also be a nice variety of textures to choose from, as well as a YUGE selection of morph packs to turn PE into any kind of lady you want. But I think by far the most important thing about PE might be just simply that she's a Poser figure that one could consider a step up from the average Poser user's favorite toy: V4, or G2 even. (or at least I hope she will be)

    At the end f the day, if people just wanna see her run around naked, lol that's also fine with me, obviously.

  • @anomalaus said in Project e:

    @erogenesis I've done the same with V4 for separate texturing/bump-mapping of water droplet/skin-tight bodysuit effect, but Poser 11 now has material layers. Could you do the sandy feet effects with a mask and bump/displacement map in another material layer?

    Yep that could work. I don't use P11 for my comics yet though.

    @Glitterati3D said in Project e:

    @rtamesis Lali IS V4 - a morph for V4. She wears V4 clothing.

    Lali used to be V4, but since then she's moved up to the PE hybrid. Indeed all of the stuff they wear is converted V4 stuff (also some Genesis stuff sometimes).

    @RobZhena said in Project e:

    If PE's zero pose has her feet flat on the floor, shoe conversion should be easy in the fitting room as I described for converting G3F shoes to Pauline and G2F.

    Yep, they is flat on the floor. I hated (like loathed) V4's angled feet.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D Tracy I don't think the the market for Eros girl has no potential.
    Look the Genesis line. Even with the Autofitter the people continue to buy new stuff. ( Guilty by my self )
    Poser, I have so much V4 , Dawn character, Outfits, hair, jewels, some of them I even just discovered new in my runtime and was even not remembering anymore when I buy it. But this does not keep me away from trolling over the M .places and buying new stuff.
    I see big potentials for Project E.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'm just excited that we have some figures we (as a community, heck not me) are developing. It is an adventure of love for this program. We need to prove to SM that Poser is worth it in spite of the "numbers". There is a strong user support system in place.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Support for figures can come in many ways:

    • textures
    • poses
    • hair
    • smart props
    • and so on, and so on.
      It does not always have to be clothes only.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Agree Tony. Some special morphs are also very rare. I miss as example always for V4 a morph for her butt when she was sitting. When she sit it looks just wrong and I was always had to use the morph tool to make it a bit more realistic.
    But I really miss some awesome preset morphs for this.

  • There are few things as flux as fashion, both in clothing and in hair. I have no idea why these Poser girls are always expected to accept the leftovers of five or ten years back.
    Come on you vendors. Watch the catwalks. Go buy a copy of Vogue on your business expenses, and make sure the right stuff for this fall is in the stores ASAP.

  • @vilters Exactly, Tony. There won't likely be a clothing demand, but there will be characters, morphs, etc. That demand is likely to be pretty high. I told Erogenesis this 6 months ago privately and advised him to get the figure/character creators on board very early and forget about the clothing vendors.

    And, there will be SOME clothing demand for the folks who aren't willing to do anything more than double click to load clothing. But that's going to very low if they can use their V4 runtime as easily as Erogenesis says.

    On the V4WM project we enthusiastically endorsed the idea of converting the V4 runtime to encourage adoption and use. It was, and still is, a smart move.

  • @fverbaas Because that's what the customers keep telling us they want. They say they want to use their V4 runtime they have heavily invested in.

    Are we not supposed to believe them?

  • @Ladonna I didn't say "no" potential, I said low potential.

    The customers say they want to use their V4 runtime they are heavily invested in on new figures - I say we should believe what they say.

  • @Glitterati3D
    Presumed the users say this, do they say this because they do not want anything new or do they say so because they just do not want to be forced to throw everything away and start all over again?

  • @Glitterati3D
    I think the weight if the v4 runtime argument has lessened over the years. This may be true for the bulk of second and third rate crap that some of us have and many don't even remember who made or when we got it, but there will always be a market for higher quality stuff. There are also people like myself who have taken a step back from poser and are on the verge of re-entering the hobby should it inspire once again. I looked through my v4 library that I was once very satisfied with and found little to nothing that I considered useable for a current project. I've also had a few years to shake off the spending fatigue of the v4 days.

    What will determine the market for clothing is this: how many people are using the figure. When a figure becomes your home to figure you buy stuff for it. If it's easy to pilfer v4 wardrobe that will only strengthen the user base and therefore increase rather than decrease the clothing market

  • @fverbaas It doesn't really matter what their reason is. Does it?

  • @KittyBrown That may be true, and I'm more than willing to be proved wrong, but I'm adopting a wait and see approach. At this point, I think that's the wise choice.

    And, I agree, clothing modeling and rigging has come a long way from when we were downloading freebies for V4. Quality has increased, demand for more true looking attire has increased, lots of good stuff actually for clothing modelers.

    I just don't think we can make assumptions and jump in whole hog with 400 clothing makers rushing to market and everyone gives up in frustration when the user renders are all wearing V4 conversions.

    I'm willing to leave the small market to the bigger vendors and let it get established and proven before I jump in.

  • People like me never invested much in V4 stuff. If project e comes alive, I am a happy PE content buyer (clothes, hair and morphs). If V4 stuff worked with PE, I am happy to buy that too.

  • @Glitterati3D The big issue though, would be if the majority of vendors take the same attitude as you. If everyone is in "wait and see" mode, then nothing will get made, the figure will fail to become popular, and people will classify it as a failure and go back to V4. What is needed is for people to realise that although jumping in with content (including clothing) is risky, there are times that risks need to be taken.