Project e


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Even with a system in place to convert existing content to a new figure, there still needs to be a decent selection of new clothing available for the figure because converted content always looks like converted content so at best its a stop-gap while new content is made for it.

    Plus a lot of that converted content is going to be filled with morphs and jcms that don't match the new figure.

    And building the figure is just the first step. Its creator has to also be willing to spend a lot of their own time supporting their new figure with new clothing designed specifically for that figure, new morphs, etc., instead of tossing it out there and expecting all the vendors to do so and all the users to use the conversion utilities provided. A lot of users don't want to mess with conversion utilities. They'll just continue using V4 or whatever they've been using. Every figure that's come out that way has died a pretty quick death because it's abandoned by its own creator.



  • @AmbientShade said in Project e:

    Plus a lot of that converted content is going to be filled with morphs and jcms that don't match the new figure.

    Not to mention that the existing V4 clothing isn't weight mapped.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey Right. And, if the user is only using Poser 10 or 11 and not the pro versions then they don't have the ability to copy morphs or rigging into the converted clothing. They don't even have access to the fitting room, since that too is a pro-only feature.



  • @modus0 said in Project e:

    @Glitterati3D The big issue though, would be if the majority of vendors take the same attitude as you. If everyone is in "wait and see" mode, then nothing will get made, the figure will fail to become popular, and people will classify it as a failure and go back to V4. What is needed is for people to realise that although jumping in with content (including clothing) is risky, there are times that risks need to be taken.

    My point is, though, that small vendors like me are not going to carry PE to success. That's why I plan to step back and give the big vendors the chance to carry her over the finish line. If they are competing with my smaller, cheaper clothing and not getting the sales, they will just move on to the next figure, or back to the DAZ Genesis line.

    ProjectE stands to be far more successful if the big vendors are involved and making money. There will always be room for those of us who specialize (I don't do skimpwear) after the big vendors have seen enough interest to keep producing for her.

    In addition, supporting a new figure is less risky for the big vendors. We should encourage them all that we can - users, vendors and creators.



  • Hey peeps, just sorted out PE's knees. They look fabulous now. Been cleaning her up lots and adding basic controls for the hands, feet and face. I'll be sending her off to my team soon while I make the mannequins. The tester figure would be to convince folks that she's 1) awesome and 2) that content would be easy to make / convert for her. Mannequins are therefore imperative. Much to do, more soon.

    @Ladonna said in Project e:

    @vilters Agree Tony. Some special morphs are also very rare. I miss as example always for V4 a morph for her butt when she was sitting. When she sit it looks just wrong and I was always had to use the morph tool to make it a bit more realistic.
    But I really miss some awesome preset morphs for this.

    PE has a dedicated ghost bone for this. The sitting handles controls either thigh and has scaling WM attached. There are limitations if you start yanking the proportions dials about because Poser's scaling needs fixing as you know. Similarly she has ghost bones for her glutes, saddlebags, belly, calfs, and a few in her arms.

    @fverbaas said in Project e:

    There are few things as flux as fashion, both in clothing and in hair. I have no idea why these Poser girls are always expected to accept the leftovers of five or ten years back.
    Come on you vendors. Watch the catwalks. Go buy a copy of Vogue

    I enormously agree with this. There is no Homo Sapiens v2.0, and fashion designers / outlets have to keep on fascinating. This will undoubtedly be the future of 3D figure Art. Both Poser and DS are heading into the direction of DIY customization, and personally I think this is Poser's advantage over DS at the moment. There's the staunch V4 crowd, but soon you'll have the staunch G3 crowd... in fact I know a few already...

    @Glitterati3D said in Project e:

    @vilters Exactly, Tony. There won't likely be a clothing demand, but there will be characters, morphs, etc. That demand is likely to be pretty high. I told Erogenesis this 6 months ago privately and advised him to get the figure/character creators on board very early and forget about the clothing vendors.

    Did you? Oops...! I remember we chatted, but I chat with a LOT of people!

    You might have a point though, but you're probably indirectly driving towards a question of "who is going to drive PE's success?" (if there will be any), is it the V4 crowd?, or the vendors that will make stuff for her regardless? Honestly, I think the latter will win anyway because there are lots of folks out there, bless their souls, but that don't have the time, skills or willpower to wanna convert V4's stuff, and would happily pay a vendor a bit of cash to update their content to PE. I know a lot of these folks. They might kick off with a few self-made conversions, but the vendors (with their experience) will win them over with ease.

    And, there will be SOME clothing demand for the folks who aren't willing to do anything more than double click to load clothing. But that's going to very low if they can use their V4 runtime as easily as Erogenesis says.

    And yet, you'll be surprised at this part I think. I have had people demand me to do their hand poses, material settings, lighting for them, because they were of the opinion that I was a vendor, and vendors need to do that stuff for them because that is their job, while they get on with the 'art' of it... while we might be sitting wondering what kind of 'artistic' input they are really talking about, these folks exist for whatever reason, and it might be way WAY more than you think.

    Still we have to see. You might be onto something, like you've seen, most of my stuff is V4 (albeit pretty decent stuff). Some folks in real life would also be like "yo I have a closet full of perfectly OK clothing, to hell with buying new stuff", and they probably exist in this world too. I do this with generc stuff like tshirts and jeans. The jeans that some of my girls wear are from 2013! Tintin wore his 'drollenvangers' throughout his comic career, nobody complained. But I do sometimes buy DS content and convert it, if its very specific.

    @KittyBrown said in Project e:

    @Glitterati3D
    I think the weight if the v4 runtime argument has lessened over the years. This may be true for the bulk of second and third rate crap that some of us have and many don't even remember who made or when we got it, but there will always be a market for higher quality stuff. There are also people like myself who have taken a step back from poser and are on the verge of re-entering the hobby should it inspire once again.

    THIS ^ is probably the key. Inspiration. The rest might all be sideshow.

    @KittyBrown said in Project e:

    I looked through my v4 library that I was once very satisfied with and found little to nothing that I considered usable for a current project. I've also had a few years to shake off the spending fatigue of the v4 days.

    And many more might have that soon. DAZ has gone absolutely bananas on content over the last 7 years and some hardcore users (including new ones that have grown up fast since G2) will also have this fatigue of the attention that DAZ is begging from them. Which is why I think SM should be careful with trying to tap into this content thing because I have the feeling people could get tired of yet another website trying to sell them content. I really think that vendors will start to have to carry this market by themselves with original content the more figures will come out... and they will... @verbaas will probably be proven right in that it will turn into what exists IRL: the fashion industry.

    This is interesting!

    @modus0 said in Project e:

    @Glitterati3D The big issue though, would be if the majority of vendors take the same attitude as you. If everyone is in "wait and see" mode, then nothing will get made, the figure will fail to become popular, and people will classify it as a failure and go back to V4. What is needed is for people to realise that although jumping in with content (including clothing) is risky, there are times that risks need to be taken.

    Yes, vendors also might need to see that they can either dance to the tune of an ever-growing monopoly, or something more natural and more in tune with the core reason why we do this in the first place: art, and the power of human innovation and curiosity. Humand have never fared well under one authority have they? Art thrives on free spirits and free spirits don't do well in confined spaces. Controlled environments don't last for very long because the power of human curiosity and desire to grow and expand is the core of mankind, no matter how trivial that confinement might seem to be. This is why we sit here and argue about it while the 'smart' option is to fall in line and start using DS, everything is done for you, its all sorted, just use Genesis and all your problems will be over... but that doesn't sound attractive does it?

    Besides that, I do have one or two tricks up my sleeve that might get people to work with her more ;)

    @AmbientShade said in Project e:

    Plus a lot of that converted content is going to be filled with morphs and jcms that don't match the new figure.

    but if it goes through the fitting room, all the original morphs are obliterated.

    @AmbientShade said in Project e:

    And building the figure is just the first step. Its creator has to also be willing to spend a lot of their own time supporting their new figure with new clothing designed specifically for that figure, new morphs, etc., instead of tossing it out there and expecting all the vendors to do so and all the users to use the conversion utilities provided.

    This might be very very true... I think I might have to do everything myself, because everyone might be in wait-and-see mode. I mean in the time I started with Poser comics in 2012, I made the first proper JCM system for V4, the first proper genital system for V4, and I've uncovered some of the dumbest bugs in Poser ever, that have been there since Poser 8 (some which really boggle the mind), I sometimes feel like nobody really cares for Poser and just waits for it to be done for them. I'm probably wrong there, it just feels like that sometimes. Vendors might want a break from carrying Poser. Hmm... it might be no wonder that DAZ are so freaking popular, they do it all for you. I know from experience that if you want to get somewhere in life, you need to take things into your own hands, and PE is a testament of that. Venus and Bella are that too probably. Vendors have been doing it for a long time.

    I will do my best, but I hope I will have most covered at the time of release, because I really do need to move on with other things.

    Anyway you guys talk too much, I can't keep up! I need to post some renders!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis said in Project e:

    PE has a dedicated ghost bone for this. The sitting handles controls either thigh and has scaling WM attached. There are limitations if you start yanking the proportions dials about because Poser's scaling needs fixing as you know. Similarly she has ghost bones for her glutes, saddlebags, belly, calfs, and a few in her arms.

    All those ghosts and I get chided for wanting to add a couple knee and wrist bones? LOL!

    but if it goes through the fitting room, all the original morphs are obliterated.

    If they have the fitting room...



  • Knees sorted!

    ***NSFW content***

    click to show

    @AmbientShade said in Project e:

    All those ghosts and I get chided for wanting to add a couple knee and wrist bones? LOL!

    Don't be an artist that is scared of making something beautiful and different.

    BTW, its interesting.

    How do I say this, these last few PAGES of posts are mostly about content, content compatibility, market value, market success... lots of support, very cool, thanks... but also lots of concern... and the few people that have said that they don't care about all of it and will buy whatever is available, are artists (from what I can see). Most of my friends are artists and they're saying the same thing, they're going nuts for it. They're hoping you're going to make stuff for her. Some of my friends are already working with mesh4. They love her. Guys, what do you actually think of the base figure? Is she pretty, does she bend well? or is she just a platform to make merchandise from?

    Might this be a point of concern if the vendors just care about the ease of use to develop stuff from this figure, regardless of how amazing he might be? Hypothetically speaking: you're not going to tell me that if I park a real human being here, figuratively speaking, and all the artists go nuts... but she won't be supported because she's too much work to develop for? I know there's a balance, like shades said, but this is something that goes against everything I believe in. I understand economic viability, I understand 'wait and see', but will you 'wait and listen' to artists?

    The core reason why I made PE is because none of the other Poser figures were appealing enough, or could do what V4 could do. They were a step back for me and I saw no reason to have to start over, especially since they didn't appeal at all. It was a subjective artistic decision, also based on practical reasons. Rebuilding a figure for comics and artwork costs time, and it better be damn well worth the money and the time if I had to start over again. I have built several figures myself because I couldn't be bothered with the crap everyone has been putting out. Its all basic, or lacking, or bends like a wet towel, or makes you sign a deal with a corporate devil, etc... None of it was inspiring, or helpful.

    Guys, is PE inspiring?

    I really hope you guys will listen to artists. I'm doing it for them.



  • I'm more interested in a cool figure. I can see how vendors might balk at complexity but as an end user I'm more interested in the end result of how she moves, bends and renders.
    I think what you are doing looks amazing.
    I love that you are taking chances and trying things that are different. Reminds me of phantom3d back at poser place. He was a true explorer and changed the way I look at everything to do with poser and 3d in general. AntoniaWM is still my favorite figure to play with, you literally just grab her limbs in the pose room and she just dances effortlessly. If you can capture any of that magic with e, she will be a success for sure. Though I should qualify that my version of success is how good a figure you make, not how many vendors ride your coat tails



  • @erogenesis Bravo on your success fixing her knees! I know that I'm getting her because I want a high quality figure that requires less fixing with Photoshop after I render her.



  • @KittyBrown said in Project e:

    I'm more interested in a cool figure. I can see how vendors might balk at complexity but as an end user I'm more interested in the end result of how she moves, bends and renders.
    I think what you are doing looks amazing.

    Thanks so much KB. For the record I do understand the concern vendors have, if the figure is absolutely stupid full of JCMs and they have to figure out what is what, its not fun and even an artist would be worried. I also keep my figure as simple as I can for practical reasons. But sometimes a joint just needs bunch of JCMs. I definitely promise to keep it at a bare minimum, with no addon JCMs and stuff like that.

    But yeah this NEEDS to be about the artist otherwise I am totally wasting my time.

    @rtamesis said in Project e:

    @erogenesis Bravo on your success fixing her knees! I know that I'm getting her because I want a high quality figure that requires less fixing with Photoshop after I render her.

    cheers r! Yes that's also why I do it.

    And thank you for your patience! You've hung around me for so long its humbling!



  • BTW guys, see that smile? that pure face bones. No morph at all.

    https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/1731/project-e/326



  • @erogenesis it is what I wait. Face. Neck. Hands. Feet. Small details that make a picture come to life.



  • @erogenesis Hard to pay attention to her smile when the rest of her and how she bends looks so good.😉



  • @erogenesis
    And the image on the right is the ' shorty' version, right?
    Chapeau! / Petje af!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis PE is coming along wonderfully! I have a personal issue though with the knee. The patella sin't showing properly to me. Too round on bend. You can almost see the "triangle" of the knee-cap when the knee is bent in RL, especially in thinner folk. Is this possible? Am I being "nit" picky? I love her mind you, just noticed this.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I do have to add, these are still the best knees on a character I've seen so far. Just so you know.



  • Cheers guys! :)

    @fverbaas said in Project e:

    @erogenesis
    And the image on the right is the ' shorty' version, right?
    Chapeau! / Petje af!

    Zeer zeker! Dank u!

    @Boni said in Project e:

    @erogenesis PE is coming along wonderfully! I have a personal issue though with the knee. The patella sin't showing properly to me. Too round on bend. You can almost see the "triangle" of the knee-cap when the knee is bent in RL, especially in thinner folk. Is this possible? Am I being "nit" picky? I love her mind you, just noticed this.

    I could have easily missed it. I went by loads of model pictures. Can you demonstrate this to me with a picture?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Project-E Clothing support.
    And why there will always be a market for Project-E clothing.

    Most women have more shoes then they, and their daughters, and their granddaughters will ever use even if they walked 10 times around our planet earth.
    And still. . . . . They keep buying shoes.

    I used to have a "thing" for watches. I bought more watches then I care to remember.

    When that was over I turned to sunglasses. I have closets full of sunglasses.

    These days it seems to have turned to bushcraft knifes and knife sharpeners.
    At least a dozen of knife sharpening systems, over a hundred stones (dry and wet, stone and diamond) and please don't let me make the bushcraft knife inventory.
    Kitchen knifes alone are over a hundred....

    When the figure IS GOOD? The market WILL be there.
    I stopped buying content more then 10 years ago after I was SO utterly disappointed with my first and only 3 items I ever bought. (from DAZ).
    I swore to never-ever buy 3D content again.

    But even in 3D, there will ALWAYS be collector guys like me.

    But, and here comes the mandatory but .....
    ONLY the creator of a figure can make her popular enough.

    These last years In 3D, I test what people want me to test, I report, and delete. It is as simple as that.
    And I build what I need for my own use. Cristal clear, honest, easy and simple.

    Best regards, Tony



  • @erogenesis So I take it that PE will be P11 only?



  • @kalypso I believe that he's said in the past that she will be compatible with Poser 2014.