Project e



  • Vicky Who?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fverbaas I love the Nordic face. (Maybe because I love Vikings lol .The second is Yamato. So cute.



  • @Ladonna I like the Yamato, not a fan of the Nordic I prefer the original E.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis
    Nice work on all the faces.
    The SSS is great in all renders, and I like them all.

    The question is already here :
    Do the bodies ethnic variations match the faces, or is it faces only?
    Never mind, I am sure you have planned all morphs required to do so.

    Remains : The height question.
    Asians are short while Africans vary a LOT in height. Europeans are usually taller then average.

    Very nice work on the faces and textures and renders sir. My compliments.



  • Wonderful work! I know you spent oodles of time on scaling, which readily manages heights.



  • @erogenesis said in Project e:

    Hey guys, busy busy. Just a quick teaser.

    Check the three ethnic bases below. For now just three so the testers / vendors can get an idea of what's possible.

    More soon.

    Looking great.
    You actually created a black woman who doesn't look just like a white woman with artificially dark skin. You have actually captured the ethnicity better than 90% of the "black" female characters/figures outhere. Better even than GND. Well done!
    Your Japanese actually LOOKS Japanese.
    Yoko deki mashita!
    Well done.
    -DP


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 Yes, Yamato is a very cute one. I was struggling between her and the Nordic. But how I already say, I love Vikings :)
    But to be honest, they are ALL just awesome. Bantu I already see as a Egypt Queen .She looks incredible authentic.



  • @fverbaas said in Project e:

    Is there an ethnic variation in body shapes also?

    I think that it's a general misconception that there are ethnic differences in body shapes.
    I mean, Chinese or Japanese women don't have a horizontal "slit", people in "Plain Awful" in the Andes don't have cubic breasts or dicks *1, and older black women don't always have huge fat behinds - we have enough "Babushkas" here which could "outfat" any African women, anytime :D

    So I think there's no necessity for specific "ethnic" body shapes because there aren't any "special".

    If I look what can be done with body morphing and scaling you can already create small or tall Asians, fat or slim Russians, square Siberians (or Eskimos if you prefer), lean Arabs, chubby Hindus, even Pygmea or whatever else you fancy.

    The big and obvious difference is in the face, and that's where ethnic morphs should focus. Plus some realistic skin maps which, as already mentioned, don't look like a "tinted" European.

    Karina

    Footnote 1:
    You can only understand this joke if you're a fan of Carl Barks' "Donald Duck" stories...



  • @karina
    The differences are not as explicit as you mention.

    alt text

    From here: https://design.tutsplus.com/articles/human-anatomy-fundamentals-advanced-body-proportions--vector-19869

    Quote:
    This is why in Western societies we often have the impression Japanese women look younger than they are: in the majority of depictions that we’re exposed to their hips remain narrower even into adulthood than those of European women, thus confusing an important visual clue. If we draw a Japanese woman with the same body type as our "generic" European woman (including wider hips), we will wonder why she looks more European than Asian.



  • @karina said in Project e:

    @fverbaas said in Project e:

    Is there an ethnic variation in body shapes also?

    I think that it's a general misconception that there are ethnic differences in body shapes.
    I mean, Chinese or Japanese women don't have a horizontal "slit", people in "Plain Awful" in the Andes don't have cubic breasts or dicks *1, and older black women don't always have huge fat behinds - we have enough "Babushkas" here which could "outfat" any African women, anytime :D

    So I think there's no necessity for specific "ethnic" body shapes because there aren't any "special".

    If I look what can be done with body morphing and scaling you can already create small or tall Asians, fat or slim Russians, square Siberians (or Eskimos if you prefer), lean Arabs, chubby Hindus, even Pygmea or whatever else you fancy.

    The big and obvious difference is in the face, and that's where ethnic morphs should focus. Plus some realistic skin maps which, as already mentioned, don't look like a "tinted" European.

    Karina

    Footnote 1:
    You can only understand this joke if you're a fan of Carl Barks' "Donald Duck" stories...

    I'd have to disagree, and it's not a matter of stereotyping or fetishizing but more probably adaptation. Africans tend to have a longer leg to torso ratio than caucasians. Asians tend to have a shorter leg to torso ratio. Caucasians females tend to gain weight on the hips, African females tend to gain the weight in the rear of the behind. I've read that Caucasians have more torso and body hair to adapt to colder weather whereas Africans have smaller torsos to expend heat.

    Obviously there is variation within ethnicities but there is still a tendency/basis/default physically, and of course, there are no "pure" races. I typically shorten the torso of Poser figures because they seem abnormally long for my African characters.

    Do we need "ethnic" bodies? I don't think so, just the adjustments for the user to modify for themselves. One reason ManuelBastioniLab for Blender is so exciting to me. He has built the ethnic variations into the basis of the software.

    By the way, have you ever noticed the rather large overall width of the nose and roundness of nostril and tip of many asian people? Similar in a way to that of Africans. I'm not sure I'm seeing that here.



  • Thank for the interesting link fverbaas!
    I didn't know about all those details before, so it might be a great guide for future character creators.

    However (and that was the main point in my previous post):

    You can already achieve "most" of these body shapes with the standard body shape morphs that come with the figure (I can do this with SASHA by only using the standard DAZ "Morphs++" and the additional SASHA morphs and dials anytime)

    But that wasn't the point:
    As you know each morph requires a horrible amount of data which makes the figure "heavy", load wise.
    Each morph - whether you use it or not - is eating your RAM at an alarming rate.

    So why add special "ethnic" body shapes (which, by your diagrams, would span about half of the body, so in case of V4 would mean about 35.000 vertices "for each single bloody morph!") if you can achieve similar results by spinning a few dials for morphs that already come with the figure?

    My suggestion:

    • Custom ethnical morphs for the face (mandatory)
    • body shapes as dial value injections using what is available.

    This should help to keep memory useage down to the minimum.

    And with some hair figures which exceed 200 MB already RAM useage isn't a negligible point anymore.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @karina said in Project e:

    we have enough "Babushkas" here

    Having Polish ancestry* (paternal grandmother), I think of a "babushka" as a headscarf worn on the head. I chuckled because I'd never heard of it in the context you mention. LOL

    *One of my "Heinz 57 varieties of ancestry ... also Italian, German, Colonial New England, other Eastern European, English, Irish, Scottish. Maybe I should check "All of the above."



  • @fverbaas Good info in the illustration and page. Yeah, observation is important.



  • @Deecey:

    You're right. In Russian, Ukrainian and Polish "Babushka" means "Grandmother", without any prejudice.

    However today it also became a synonym for "Old ladies weighing way over 150 kilograms".
    In Ukraine they are most seen selling shashlik or kvas in mobile shops by the roadside. :D

    Of course this is an exaggerated "meme" and not true all the time.
    But just like in America, where everybody living in a trailer car is prejudiced as "redneck" and "trailer trash", we have our prejudices too.
    And all those are as wrong as anything.

    But this is moving OT, so let's stop now...

    Wszystko co najlepsze!

    Karina



  • Whether a change is achieved through morphs or through transformations is immaterial. Sure you can dial ethnic body shape variations in each time by transformations. Sure it is not absolutely necessary to have dials for more/less African body or more/less Asian body.
    I was just wondering.



  • Thank you everyone for the compliments and nice remarks! Very much appreciated!

    @vilters said in Project e:

    Remains : The height question.
    Asians are short while Africans vary a LOT in height. Europeans are usually taller then average.

    Yep height won't be a problem. Although its not there yet, she will have a dial allowing you to set the height accurately in METRIC UNITS... oops did I just say that out loud? Lol I'll try imperial too.

    @fverbaas said in Project e:

    @erogenesis
    Is there an ethnic variation in body shapes also?

    Not yet, but will have.

    @vilters said in Project e:

    @erogenesis
    Do the bodies ethnic variations match the faces, or is it faces only?

    I was planning on providing presets that control other morphs and scales to replicate what @fverbaas posted (btw thanks for that!). Indeed like @karina says I'm not going to provide FBMs of these bodytypes but rather presets of combinations of morphs (or PBMs), as it is less taxing on the RAM... that said I'll need the space for the other thousands of morphs I will want to make available lol... if I have the time. The only real full total body morphs I will provide would perhaps be general fat, skinny, pudge and musclular ones etc, but even those will be compartmentalized to some degree. The rest will be more like presets combining several morphs.

    @karina said in Project e:

    ...and older black women don't always have huge fat behinds - we have enough "Babushkas" here which could "outfat" any African women, anytime :D

    lol I wouldn't know about 'babushkas', but in Malawi we have 'matofotofos' and they are shamelessly fat. Being fat is like a cultural thing in Malawi. If you're a lady packing kilos and you have a serving table for an ass, you're hot stuff there, you'll get all the men running after you. You will get marriage proposals! I knew this belgian girl once who was fairly obese, and she was approached almost twice a day by Malawian men. If you get told there that you're 'nice and fat', that's a serious compliment. Also, if any local Malawian says to you: "you look healthy", it basically means you've put on weight. Those times are changing slowly though, with the younger generations, as they're becoming more and more aware of the risks of being overweight.

    But speaking of which, I came across a wikipedia article about a physiological trait among certain african tribes that gives them this extreme lumbar lordosis and I've definitely seen this in Malawian women too, with a seriously exaggerated curve of the lower spine and the resulting protruding buttocks. I'm just not sure if its actually 'lordosis' or if its a genetic trait or caused by environmental / cultural factors.

    BTW how fascinating about african types having longer shins, I never knew that, no wonder they run like the wind. In evolution all sprinters have longer shins as compared to thighs, as opposed to endurance runners that have even length legs. I think that could be why africans are better with sprints and caucasians better at marathons, although a lot of africans are also winning those too.

    PS: there ethnic bases are also combinations of various morphs, like the Yamato girl is combined with eye base forward, epicanthic fold down, nose flat, full lips, wide jaw etc... and indeed they're just as a base to you can include them in your own combinations. The materials / textures will also match these bases and can also provide a starting point for making your own mats.



  • @dcrosby said in Project e:

    By the way, have you ever noticed the rather large overall width of the nose and roundness of nostril and tip of many asian people? Similar in a way to that of Africans. I'm not sure I'm seeing that here.

    yeah the japanese nose there is not entirely representative of the yamato people as they're slightly more round and have a more S-shape extending from the tip along the nostril. I'll get there.



  • getting there...!
    more details soon.

    2_1510943180393_project_e smiling 1.jpg
    0_1510943180375_project_e smiling 5.jpg

    0_1510943375907_Aino Lady 1.jpg



  • @erogenesis Looking great! My only suggestion is to perhaps increase the thickness of her tongue a little bit to give it more form and body.



  • @rtamesis cheers. there will be an option for that :)

    (although it might look thin in that pic because its curved inwards there, but its fairly think already)


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