How to get rid of glossy white alien eyes from EZSkin3

  • MissB, before you go re-creating your eye textures, try something for me.

    Most of the time white eyes, fingernails, etc. are not from texture settings but because of specular values. The first thing I would tell you is to go to Materials>The Construct and set the Construct to Blackout. This will determine if your eye reflections are simply reflecting the stark white Construct which is the default in Poser 11 (fingernails, toenails, lips, too).

    If that doesn't resolve the white out eyes, then check Alt Spec settings. If they are turned way up, you'll get too much specular. Remember that a PBR uses specular by default, so when you bump up specular settings, you really are doubling them.

    Just try those experiments and see if that helps.

  • @Glitterati3D I've been making notes more than anything today, so will try most things out tomorrow.

    As far as The Construct goes, I don't use it, as for some reason my version of PP11 did NOT come with it as the default "ground". I have the old Ground Plane that earlier versions of Poser had as their new scene default. In fact, until someone mentioned The Construct as being the default in their PP11, I didn't know it was supposed to be.

    The Construct can be found in the Primitives folder of the Props library, but I've tried adding that, hiding the Ground plane, setting it to all white, and rendering, and I kept getting grid lines like it looks in Preview mode. I think Ken1171 at HW said I shouldn't be seeing that, and I figured out how to get it to render properly. In the Scenes library there is a Poser 11 Environments folder, and that contains an Alternate Construct scene, that will actually "replace" the old Ground Plane, so I suspect that most folks got their versions of PP11 with new scenes set up that way. Not sure why mine wasn't, but I'm not the only one, as I know of at least one other person at HW that has the same setup.

    That said, I doubt I'd use it, as I happen to like BB's EnvSphere, and now with Snarly's EZDome setup, and some nice HDRi images I've downloaded, I don't really need to use The Construct. Of course, EnvSphere comes set with a white background, and if SuperFly did shadow catching, I would use the Ground Plane set to white, so yes what you mention could be the problem because I had no problem with DuskSE's eyes in my Strolling The Beach render, which was done with HDRi lighting.

    I'll be adding your comments to my notes, and hopefully I'll be able to get a handle on this, at least to the point where I know the process I need to do to make sure my character's eyes come out more natural looking, as I'm not really into rendering aliens. ~wink~

  • @Miss-B Keep in mind that the reflections may be the actual lights, and/or the surrounding environment.

  • @Glitterati3D Very true. I've got a render cooking, and I think, at least for this time, I figured out how to get a real eye rather than the alien eyes I was getting last night.

    In this case there's no Alternate Specular for the Iris and Pupil, but there is for the Eye (I think the "Surface" ghostship was talking about) and the Corona, and it turns out the Eye/Surface is fine, it's the Corona that was causing the problem.

    At first I just played with the settings, which helped, but it was still rendering with a white cast, not solid white, but not natural looking. I disconnected the Specular node for the Corona material, and now I have real eyes. ~smile~ Whether this will work all the time, or just for DawnSE (which is the character I'm trying to render this time) remains to be seen. I'm definitely going to play with the Specular Mask Boni provided, as I think that will help a lot.

    OK I'll be back with a render soon as it's finished.

  • OK, here's the render I just did, and it's a rather quick render, so could probably use some more samples, as her skin doesn't look quite as clear as I'd like.

    Now the eyes look much better, but when I rendered the eyes up close, I didn't like the materials. Not surprising as the character morph is a freebie, so I think I'll try one of my other Dawn character eye materials, and see what I get. I did tweak her lips, fingernails and toenails because they were coming out white, which isn't what I wanted.

    Doe For Dawn

  • @Miss-B The construct is called the construct in the library but is called "ground" when it loads in an open scene.

  • @Miss-B DawnSE with default maps using my eye shaders. The irises and pupils are too big on the maps giving her that dead-dolly eye look. The textures look ok otherwise.
    0_1490891063781_dawn eyes.jpg

  • @ghostship Thanks for that. I downloaded the shader yesterday, but haven't had a chance to check it out. I'm not sure if I used the default materials in that render last night. I do have a character skin set by Sveva for Dawn, where she didn't include any character morphs, just skin, makeup (including lips and nails) and eyes. I just don't recall at the minute if I used one of those eye mats or Dawn's default. I'll check back later after I play some more today. I also want to play with the Sclera Mask Boni posted yesterday.

  • @Miss-B the sclera mask is for V4. there is also one already plugged into my V4 shader.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    a couple observations:

    1. the construct's mat room zones are "Ground" and "background"
    2. You can add a lot more dynamic light catching if you add bump to the various areas of the eyes ... specifically the sclera and the iris ... PLUS for the Gen 4 characters the bulge and convex settings in the "eyeball" in shapes in morphs ++.

    Example: I've added a glass texture to the iris, a bump and adjusted the iris bulge to -.5 to get the shine in the iris.


  • @ghostship Yes I noticed that. I haven't played with it with V4 yet, as I'm still playing with DawnSE. I noticed your shader has a material zone for the Sclera, which V4 more than likely has, but Dawn doesn't so not sure if your shader could be tweaked to work with DawnSE. I know you posted a quick render you did, but I haven't had any luck with it . . . yet.

    I did start a new scene with DawnSE and her default textures, ran EZSkin3 with the Eyes option unchecked, but that didn't help, so I disconnected the node attached to the Alternate_Specular for the Cornea, as that's the only one that's causing a problem. Of course, if you want to do a fairly close render, say from the waist or hips up, her eyes are coming out a bit flat, so I still have to figure out how to get some shine without whiting out her whole eye. I did try reducing the Anisotropic node's values first, but the only way I could totally get rid of the white haze on her eyes was to disconnect it completely. Maybe there's another node I could use that might do the job better. I like Anisotropic for lips and nails, but not sure it's the right thing for eyes. I've got a render cooking that I'll be able to post in a bit, so you can see what I have so far.

  • @Boni Yes, I've played with The Construct some so have seen those in the Material Room.

    I like your suggestion about adding a glass texture to the Iris. I hadn't thought about that. I'll be adding this to the comments I gathered yesterday. Thanks. ~smile~

  • OK here's a render I just did, where I did NOT run Dawn's eyes through EZSkin 3. These are DawnSE's default textures, and the eye color is lighter than what I was playing with last night, so the eyes look better, but flat. After dinner I'll try some other options to see if I can get a "little" shine on her eyes.

    The lighting is 2 infinite lights (thanks to @jura11), and I used BB's EnvSphere.

    Dawn SuperFly Closeup

  • @Miss-B The eye whites are definitely too bright and that is due to the texture map. The map has highlights burned into the white part. Really defeats the purpose of PBR. Again, this is the default brown eye texture except that I made the iris and pupils smaller and then I plugged a HSV2 node (value at .75) between the map and my shader. This tames the ultra bright eye whites. Remember to do the same with the iris and pupil or it will look strange.

    0_1490934921379_Dawn Eye Test.jpg

  • @ghostship OK, I'll be try that next, as nothing I played with last night seemed to work, and I tried every kind of specular node available. I should've realized the spec was burned in to the texture map.

    I'll be making a note of this for the future, as I'm not sure any of the default textures for Dusk and the rest of the HW family of characters are any better with respect to the whites.

  • @Miss-B If you're going to use Dawn and or Dusk in any capacity you need to get Texture Transformer. There just isn't enough good textures for them so converting textures is the way to go. The one I have in that render is a V3 texture that I converted using Texture Converter then converted to Dawn with Texture Transformer.

  • @ghostship I was just going to post to ask you if you did something like that, because when I apply your Iris shader, it's prompting me for a texture called VWDalilahEGray.jpg, which I don't have.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    IIRC -PBR terms- surface of eye will have about 4% reflectance& low roughness. With physical surface use low specular eg 30 30 30 plus roughness at 0.03 or similar. Bump also important for bulge of cornea. Sorry on phone as away can't post screens :(

  • @Miss-B said in How to get rid of glossy white alien eyes from EZSkin3:

    @ghostship I was just going to post to ask you if you did something like that, because when I apply your Iris shader, it's prompting me for a texture called VWDalilahEGray.jpg, which I don't have.

    I thought I had set those up with new image node with no images. Let me check.

  • @Miss-B I just did a double check and the do load up without any specific textures and they should be just single zone mats. Maybe a Poser bug.