Question regarding export and text.
gonzalomartinez last edited by
@cartoonMike Thank you for the insight. In my particular case, since I do pencils to lettering (and grayscaling), I feel very comfortable doing it in one environment. That way, I'm able to control everything like moving balloons and even modifying drawings in order to accomplish a smooth storytelling.
Anyway, I'll search for Affinity Designer, it looks like a nice alternative to Illustrator.
laura.seabrook last edited by
If you're looking for an alternative to Illustrator, I can suggest using AlternativeTo. This is a website that lists alternatives to software, based on platform, and license. The link I've given here goes to the Illustrator CC page, and that lists AFFINITY DESIGNER as well as others.
Personally I think the main issue with CSP when it comes to text is the fact that their main audience is Japanese. This is why word wrap was an after-thought, and rotating text (while still being able to edit it) just isn't there. Ideally CSP ought to have lots of flexibility when it comes to text, because in Western comics there's so much variation. We can but hope.
gonzalomartinez last edited by
@laura.seabrook Thank you!
@laura.seabrook @cartoonMike Hi Laura and Mike.... Ha Ha ..How long have we been bemoaning this issue ? MS version 3.mike says ...I think that's right. I should take Mikes lead and use something else for text....However I've already got CS3 versions of Photoshop and Illustrator.. but make a virtue of never using them. The inter-operability between mixed applications would have to be much slicker for me to go that route. Although a lost cause I will keep hammering at this . CSP has some advanced features for Vertical Text users ..... and my guess is that they cannot give us what the Horizontal text market needs without breaking the vertical text features ( though I fail to see why they could not have given us wrapping on word). Somehow we have to convince them to provide an additional type of Text layer and Text engine for the wider ( horizontal) market. SMITH MICRO... Please listen and help us get this !!!
cartoonMike last edited by cartoonMike
@888toto SM is aware of the text features shortcomings and I've been told that they have forwarded them to Celsys (the peeps who create the app), it's just that Celsys cares about Western text like a honey badger. ;)
In my book, (shameless plug!), Manga Studio 5 Beginners Guide, I talked a bit about text in MS (prior to the name change which HAPPENED JUST AS THE BOOK WAS BEING RELEASED. I'm not bitter...) and said that drawing, inking and coloring in MS/CSP was like experiencing super high def picture with crystal clear sound in perfect 3D, and Text is like a '50s bw TV with a pair of rabbit ears. I could be so much more, but it's not and I blame a total lack of will in Celsys' part.
@cartoonMike Indeed Celsys do know about it here are some of the direct responses they have given to me over the years...
October 2014 ...."We recognize that the text tool of CLIP STUDIO PAINT does not support opentype auto ligature and so on, which is important to many countries.
We have not decided whether to support but we will take it as an important request.
All requests from this Contact form will be shared with development team.
So this is where you can directly deliver your request."
Later " recognize not enough feature for kerning as well.
We want to implement these features, but we said to you the related plan is to be decoded we cannot confirm it right now.
We understand that kerning is important for many users, so we will continue to research and study while referring your comment."
March 2017 "Thank you for the inquiry.
About the text enhancements, we have had a bunch of such requests and think of an expansion of the services in the future.
However, as there are currently various pending matters, I am unable to provide you with any information.
We apologize for the inconvenience."
As loyal and, frankly, highly supportive customers we deserve better !
cartoonMike last edited by
@888toto And it's not like we're asking for novel/unique features. OpenType's been around for more than a decade. In tech years, that's middle age. Kerning has been around since the original Mac.
I think as long as CSP is the only app of its kind out there, nuthin's gonna happen on the text front that'll be even close to what you can get from a $30 app like Comic Life (which I really like, btw) that focuses on lettering for comics (among image filtering for using photos in comics).
Celsys has a captive audience in us and knows it. However, a monopoly in a niche market is never a good thing. Especially when it can lead the developers into "not invented here" territory...
888toto last edited by 888toto
@cartoonMike Inexpensive Apps like Comic Life can deliver those standard Unicode features ( Ligatures, Kerning, Wrapping etc.) because the programmer can call upon standard modules and Class Libraries that handle those issues ( e.g. TextKit on IOS). but CSP does not conform to that unicode standard and probably does not use those standard modules in order that it can instead provide non standard features like Dynamic BOLD and Italic ( when the font does not support that ) and all those odd "Reading" settings that we westerners don't understand. As a consequence its probably a big , difficult, job for Celsys to add those standard unicode features as they will at best have to write every detail themselves from scratch ....or worse .., if they have used some Japanese specific third party modules that does not support these features. I strongly suspect this is why we have seen no progress. The lack of Word Wrap was however aa major mistake as it would only have needed very few lines of additional code to what they already delivered.
The solution would be to provide a second, alternative, Text engine for the Horizontal text market... which ditched the none standard features but was able to make use of the standard modules and class libraries to deliver those features that we now expect as standard.
cartoonMike last edited by
@888toto Yeah, I get that there are things for Eastern text that could make implementing Western text challenging. But after about 10 years or so, there should be more done for Western text beyond a kludgy pseudo-text wrap. It could be time for Celsys to just admit they can't do any more with Western Text than what they've done already. Then Celsys should put on their big-boy pants and ask for some help from these 3rd party app devs (comic Life-- Plasq, Affinity Designer -- Serif, etc) . All it would take is something like "Go-Z" from 3D apps but for text. All it would take is some will, money (which I'm pretty sure they'll recoup from making this an add on or paid upgrade), sharing the .LIP or .CLIP format with other devs and ditching this "not invented here" mindset. How freaking cool wold it be to have a ComicLife plugin for CSP? Now Eastern text is untouched and us rogue westerners can have text that's usable in CSP with a nice "round-trip" workflow. I'll admit to this being just a pipe dream, but it would be so cool if it could be done. Because, as you pointed out, it may just be beyond Celesys' ability to deliver good text tools that can deal with OpenType features like Auto Ligatures, small caps and such.
The next update for Krita may be interesting as it will focus a lot on vector and Text, or so I hear. Even though it's a bit ... wonky ... in it's interface, it's not unusable and does give pretty decent results. And the devs, bless 'em all, do actually listen and repsond to user's requests. Something that is refreshing after the "shouting into a cave" kind of thing that happens with Celsys... just sayin'. My gut feeling is that after 3 or 4 more point updates, Krita may just be to Comic Creation apps what Blender has become to 3D apps. And Comic Life has a iPad app that can create an entire comic, from layouts to pencils to inks and colors in addition to lettering. And for them, it'll be a little jump to get it going as a desktop app. So CSP may not be the only town this comic creation game is being played in...
mechanaut last edited by
It seems really odd that CSP exports to Photoshop format, and does not make use of vector text layers.
jahnocli last edited by
@cartoonMike - Comic Life already is a desktop application. I know -- I've got it on my desktop...
@mechanaut Its actually not surprising that it cannot export text in text form to other packages ( PS or anything else) because it has a non standard way of handling and displaying text...The only way it can be sure to send the same image of the text to PSD is to send it as a Raster Bitmap. If they created a different type of text layer that conformed to the international unicode standard then it would theoretically be possible to export as editable text layer... at least until they added the other things that we want ( rotating text boxes and text on a ruler )... at which point it would be CSP specific again and only export as bitmap....Sorry I fantasize ...its never going to happen