Moved from Superfly Thread



  • @admin do you know how difficult for a woman it is to find an forum where men do not show women as piece of meat? Always there are men who only want to post tts and as. They want to be free to do this not matter how it affects others. They don't care because their right to make boring soft core porn is most important. And now because no one will do something I have another forum where I feel disrespected as a woman. "Damn I forgot to mark as NSFW" means DarthJ doesn't give a damn about the forum rules that state about respecting others. And no mods care. This is obvious. I started using Poser not long ago. Now I don't want to if this is how the official Poser world acts. Thank you to those who try to help with kind votes but I think mods aren't going to listen or act. Just part of being a woman in a man porn world.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @able_baker said in Post Your SuperFly Renders:

    Thank you to those who try to help with kind votes but I think mods aren't going to listen or act. Just part of being a woman in a man porn world.

    The rules on nudity are PG 13. This has been stated numerous times in various threads.
    The mods are not ignoring this, and neither are the admins.
    We are looking for a viable solution for this, to hide nudity until clicked.
    Any posts that go past PG 13 will be removed.

    PG13 allows for some nudity. That is what the rating is for in the first place.



  • @shvrdavid said in Post Your SuperFly Renders:

    @able_baker said in Post Your SuperFly Renders:

    Thank you to those who try to help with kind votes but I think mods aren't going to listen or act. Just part of being a woman in a man porn world.

    The rules on nudity are PG 13. This has been stated numerous times in various threads.
    The mods are not ignoring this, and neither are the admins.
    We are looking for a viable solution for this, to hide nudity until clicked.
    Any posts that go past PG 13 will be removed.

    PG13 allows for some nudity. That is what the rating is for in the first place.

    "Rules of Conduct. While using the Site you will comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. In addition, we expect users of the Site to respect the rights and dignity of others"

    This mean nothing. Rights to post nudity outweighs right to not be humiliated and treated like meat with tits. OK.



  • @able_baker You're going to find that for some, T&A is what Poser is all about. Just look in the 3D stores at the female clothing if you have ANY doubts.

    I'm sorry, but the truth is that this genre is a huge money maker for 3D applications.

    If it offends you so, perhaps you should find a community that just doesn't allow it to spend your time. Hivewire3D forums and gallery are one such place. DAZ talks a pretty good game, but still sells the attire to encourage the genre.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @able_baker said in Post Your SuperFly Renders:

    "Rules of Conduct. While using the Site you will comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. In addition, we expect users of the Site to respect the rights and dignity of others"

    Are the rights of others to post images within the PG 13 guidelines any different?
    Should they be pulled?
    Basically removing those rights, from them as well?
    Or am I missing something?

    PG13 is one of the rules here, it is a regulation.
    And we do expect users to respect the rights of others within the guidelines.
    Including PG 13 postings, that are allowed.



  • @able_baker I am ambivalent on this issue Able. Sensuality is a fundamental part of life so I appreciate those who wish to express it in their art, be it an artistic rendering of the human form, or borderline/full pornography. Computing seems to be a male dominated field, so it seems reasonable that that is reflected in their art. I also disagree with women collectively becoming pieces of meat, simply due to their depiction in art, any more than drawing animals reduces them to pieces of meat
    However, I do appreciate your preference not to be constantly confronted with such pieces. Personally I feel the same about twee images of fairies! :-) I imagine that the mods will continue to pursue options for adding an NSFW tag. I am curious though, if it would change anyone's opinion's if naked men were posted as frequently as naked women?
    Personally I am fine with both, and it seems to me that if one is going to use the internet, it's taken as read that sex is everywhere. It reflects the tastes of younger user base unconstrained by religious values of modesty, and in many ways I think that's a good thing.



  • @matb Thank you for your reasonable and sensitive response. I have not problem with sensuality, or sexuality, or nudity or the portrayal of same. Believe it or not. (: I love the human form and the female form especially. Especially the form of my girlfriend. Yes that's right. (;

    But respectfully unless you are a woman you cannot know what it is like to see your gender exploited like objects of meat. You just cannot.

    So it will not matter if the images were PG13 of men because men are not exploited as objects the way women are. You can argue they are now days but it will not make it the same.

    There is a selection of men here in this site who make porn. Fact. Oh well. Some of these have common sense and consider that a forum is analogous to a shopping mall. It is a good analogy. There are many people in a shopping mall. All types. All genders. All origins. But maybe soft core porn in the middle of the shopping mall is inappropriate in most places? Maybe even just nudity is not acceptable in a shopping mall?

    But maybe the porny old men should have their own mall where they can have all the naked women they want all the time among themselves. They can trade images and dream up new and astonishing breasts lol.

    It is obvious that one woman is not going to change these men here and this issue is not simple. I will find other forums where -maybe- women are respected. I think Glitter is right. This is not the place for me. It is perhaps not the place for women either but no other women are speaking up so this says I am alone in my views.



  • @able_baker I feel saddened if you do not feel welcome here because there are many very smart people here who will really advance your skills if that is what interests you. I agree with you wholeheartedly that a shopping mall is not generally the place to display nudity (unless you are living in Sweden :-) However, an art gallery IS, and that's precisely where you are now. I find that the two render threads (this one and the Firefly one) tend to be showcases where people are most likely to express their artistic interests. I suspect that if you didn't look at those two topics, you would rarely, if ever encounter content that you find inappropropriate.
    I think if you stayed away from those two topics, you would discover that there is not a more expert group of Poser users on the planet than in this forum. If nothing else, bookmark this forum as a place where help and rich information is provided freely and generously. I've gained a lot by following some of the threads and asking questions.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @able_baker Believe it or not, I completely understand what you are talking about. I have a degree in Women's Studies ... I understand gender politics. I also understand that men have a different view on this than women. Yes there are some images that are uncomfortable in the Poserverse. I've compromised some of my perspectives so that I won't lose vital information and lessons in the software I am somewhat obsessed with. Men are not the enemy ... they are as conditioned to view life a certain way as we are.

    I do agree that there should be a better way to "choose" not to see certain images for those who find them uncomfortable. Until then ... I trudge on and try to be objective for the purpose of learning. It probably doesn't help that I have known most of these guys for a long time and have learned to be more ... tolerant (for lack of a better word) of their tastes in imagery. Keep in mind these are "dolls" not real women. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Compromise isn't a dirty word and keeps communication open, in my experience.

    My girlfriend (wife) would feel as uncomfortable as you, by the way. ;)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    "Human race", is the only animal that is so ashamed of its bodies that they cover up using clothing. No other animal on this planet does that, needs that.

    Like it or not; We ALL have nipples, period, end of story.

    The porn or XXX industry is a completely different matter and should effective be banned on application oriented forums like this one.



  • @vilters said in Post Your SuperFly Renders:

    "Human race", is the only animal that is so ashamed of its bodies that they cover up using clothing. No other animal on this planet does that, needs that.

    Like it or not; We ALL have nipples, period, end of story.

    The porn or XXX industry is a completely different matter and should effective be banned on application oriented forums like this one.

    And, yet, people call the police on a mother who dares to breast feed in public.



  • @able_baker You're not alone, able_baker. Some of us have just had this fight and lost, so we know better than to keep speaking out.

    As for myself, I make 3D clothing, so I speak while doing that - I don't make "slutwear" costumes for 3D models, nor do I include body shaming morphs (emaciated, hag, etc.) in the clothing I make. I also vendor where my views are honored on this topic.

    I have a young, beautiful daughter and I do nothing in 3D that will allow anyone to demean her with something I make.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'm just going to through this out there....

    Just about every Poser site I have ever admin'd, moderated, or participated in has been thru this.
    I have been seeing this for years.
    Inevitably, the issue of blocking images comes up if it is not in place from the word go.

    Even after it is addressed, it continues.
    Even after the TOS is brought up about respecting ALL users opinions on it.
    It continues... The fact remains, the site has a PG-13 rating.

    No matter what is done about it, the argument always continues.
    This is a thread about Superfly renders, to showcase them, etc.
    It is not a thread about how anyone would run a site, morels, porn, etc.

    I just work here, and have already been pointed out as not caring, etc, etc, etc.
    Nothing new there either.....

    We now have a way to hide the images, and the argument just continues.
    We implemented a way to do just as some people asked.
    And it still isn't good enough is it?

    There will always be those that speak out, it is their right to do so.
    But there is also a time and place for it, and this isn't the place.

    click to show



  • In that thread porn is in the regarder mind.

    0_1491673755665_images.jpg



  • If I want to look at porn I go look at porn, if I see something done in Poser that's porn-like most of the time I can't see past the horrible physics defying poses and hot air balloon sized breasts that people give the figures.

    What irks me about this isn't that they're posting "nsfw" images, it's that someone could post an unclothed V4 in a T pose but give it huge boobs and that image will get 500 replies of "Awesome image" and "Amazing work!" in a week, yet someone who makes an entire universe of completely morphed characters gets two replies in a year.



  • @johndoe641 Lol - but that's the same on youtube - create carefully scripted thought provoking videos - almost no views. Make videos of you making silly noises and it's a $12 million a year channel. If you want appreciation as a high artist, post your stuff in the Louvre! :-) The fact is, most people are driven by their lower brain not their higher intellect.



  • @johndoe641 said in Post Your SuperFly Renders:

    If I want to look at porn I go look at porn, if I see something done in Poser that's porn-like most of the time I can't see past the horrible physics defying poses and hot air balloon sized breasts that people give the figures.

    What irks me about this isn't that they're posting "nsfw" images, it's that someone could post an unclothed V4 in a T pose but give it huge boobs and that image will get 500 replies of "Awesome image" and "Amazing work!" in a week, yet someone who makes an entire universe of completely morphed characters gets two replies in a year.

    Damn! I gotta try that "T" pose idea. Absolutely brilliant! LOL



  • @DarthJ I don't understand your irritation. You still get to post what you want and those who don't want this forum to be low level porn hub get their wishes too. Personally I couldn't care less, but I respect the sensibilities of members who might. Are you so determined to shape the world to your personal tastes that even this minimal courtesy needs ridicule? This is not about people being special snowflakes, it's about being courteous. Is that really unreasonable?
    There's a whole galaxy of Tumblr and DeviantArt out there for you to display your most mature work to much wider audiences.

    @Ladonna > Nice, please don't forget the rest of the trigger warnings too. Is this a artist forum with adults or are we in the kindergarten where nobody is is responsive for his own?

    But that's exactly the point. You know nothing about the audience here. You don't even know that they ARE all adults (although it's kind of assumed).

    You cannot be responsible for MY response to your work. Supposing I'm a person of strong religious or moral beliefs, or viewing at work. Can I not enjoy this forum any more?

    This kind of feels to me like people who demand their rights to be nudist outside schools. I always think that there are other motivations for that kind of exhibitionism. People who want to shove their erotica down the throats of those who are not interested are clearly getting some less obvious need met by doing so. Personally, I'd be uncomfomfortable revealing that about myself. I was mildly irritated when Able referred to the guys here as "dirty old men". Now I wonder if she was actually on the mark in some cases.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @matb I guess I can read very well between the lines and see who is adult and who not. I am not a porn fan and post very, very, rare pin ups. And when, my characters are always covered with underwear or bikini. So I really could not care less if this forum turn into a fairy land also like many others.
    But to read in every forum, on every site that somebody is offended, because of something is tiresome. This is a art site. If people feel offended because of human body's , maybe they have the wrong hobby.
    As long no porn is posted here, I see no reason of excessive trigger warnings.
    When an artist has to fear all the time that his image may hurt some diffuse feelings, than we go in a wrong direction.
    Don't miss understand me, I am against hate, violence, excessive porn and think they belong on special sites , where people have the same taste.
    But here? Till now I did not see any image which offends me. And I am a woman.



  • @Ladonna > But to read in every forum, on every site that somebody is offended, because of something is tiresome.

    I'm sure it is, but one might as well say "On every forum where people post racist, Nazi imagery there are always whiners." If average people are being upset on every single forum because the line is constantly being pushed, of course you'll hear people complaining. Deviant Art, a community with Deviant in the title, and which caters to far stronger art than you would ever find in a Poser forum, has a rating system that covers and hides nude imagery. Even Tumblr, about as much of a wild kingdom as a mainstream site gets, has a rating system so that people who would rather not see adult imagery do not have to.
    The fact that you then go on to place limits on the levels of sexual imagery that YOU find acceptable only goes to suggest to me that you are just as likely to find sexual imagery offensive, the only issue is where you draw the line, in which case you occupy no higher moral ground than anyone else. I'm reminded of a joke:
    "A man goes up to a woman in a bar and asks if she would sleep with Brad Pitt for a million dollars. She says 'Of course I will.' He then asks if she will sleep with him for $10. She gets outraged, to which he responds, 'We've already established that you're a whore, now we're simply quibbling over the price.'" ;-)
    I have an EXTREMELY liberal attitude towards sexual imagery, however I am also sensitive to those who are not. It seems like such a very, very tiny inconvenience to attach a collapsible warning that shows consideration to those who might not share my laissez faire attitude.
    As for being offended here, no, nothing here has offended me either, although I do yawn massively when I see yet another woman with oversized breasts. But if that works for some, I'm certainly not going to question what stimulates their libido. Each to their own.
    But perhaps I am overreacting. If I went to my local art supplies store, I would not expect to see it filled with images of naked women. If I was in my local gallery, I would not consider it unreasonable, although again, I would find it desperately unimaginative. Perhaps in the renders section of this forum anything up to a 15 rating should be allowed, with a PG rating or collapsible warning in the other sections, which I personally consider to be technical areas. What do you think?