Next chalange: Fire!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I have a simple elongated egg like shape that I need to make have a realistic candle flame in. All my attempts have been abysmal. I can't show the renders due to model creator's privacy ... but Mapping just puts the flame on a front and back ... even with a transparency map ... so that wasn't a go. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    PS this is for Superfly.



  • @Boni As in like flames on a hot rod?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Candle flame, fireplace fire, bon-fire ... torch ... NOT billboards ... but on shapes. realisticly. Volumentrics and all.



  • not something I would touch right now with the tools in Poser. There is only volume absorption and volume scatter. Not sure how you'd get that to emit light and look correct. The emission (spelling) node is hard to use because of the color space problem that I posted about a while back. A candle flame won't look correct when emitting the right amount and color of light. Blender has a special engine/effect for smoke and flames. No particles for Poser users.

    This is about as good as I can get it in Poser. Liberal use of DOF blur as the brightness of the flame burns out the anti aliasing on it's edges.
    0_1492236436881_Flame.jpg



  • @Boni you might be able to plug the emission node into the volume input as this is supposed to work in Blender. I have to sleep now and will check it out in the morning.



  • I'm in the middle of a different project, so I can't try it, but can you use the same cheat we used in firefly where you used the same geometry twice? One you have the colors and one has the high light emission and has the visible in camera unchecked so it gives off light but doesn't actually show?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Boni said in Next chalange: Fire!:

    Candle flame, fireplace fire, bon-fire ... torch ... NOT billboards ... but on shapes. realisticly. Volumentrics and all.

    A consideration for mesh modeling: There will be a difference in flame ~shape~ depending on size; candle flames would be laminar flow (of the gases), whereas a bonfire's flames will be chaotic.
    Laminar flow flames (candles, e.g.) have that iconic teardrop shape. Larger flames which have chaotic flame gas flow will have localized eddies; they produce those leaping tongues of flame.

    @redphantom 's suggestion of using an emitter mesh enveloping the visible flame will balance apparent brightness versus lightcasting in Firefly. For Superfly, I'd use either the LightPath node or one of the Emission functions on the visible flame itself.
    Volume would imply P11.
    @Boni: Which Poser version, and which render engine (if P11)?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    OK, I gave it a try in Poser Pro 2014 Firefly IDL; it has the FF IDL blotchiness, but it works.
    still frame - Firefly IDL Pro2014

    The flame shader is an animated procedural by BB; I gave it displacement and added an unseen IDL emitter and a faintly visible aura...
    Pro2014 Firefly animation

    The blotchiness would diminish if you use some Poser light(s); the animated feature is automatic and will run for as long as your scene runs.

    The meshes are the match, the visible flame, the unseen IDL emitter (just barely larger than the flame), and the faintly visible aura.
    wireframe

    BB's procedural animated flame for Pro2014 Firefly:
    BB's flame


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here is a runtime-zipped prop of the Firefly IDL burning match with BB's procedural animated flame

    I'll make a Superfly version when I get time.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    May I use this on a commercial project?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Boni said in Next chalange: Fire!:

    May I use this on a commercial project?

    You may use my contributions - modifications of BB's shader, and I'll consider the "egg" meshes and matchstick/torch as Poser primitives. The base shader is BB's work.

    I'm about to run a Superfly test render...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Superfly animation render; the balance of apparent brightness of the flame versus lightcasting strength is done using the LightPath node.
    Superfly procedural animated flame

    Hmmm... the GIF quality seems to have been crushed in the post.

    full quality GIF of Superfly flame


  • Poser Ambassadors


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Boni said in Next chalange: Fire!:

    May I use this on a commercial project?

    I don't mind you using the fire shader in commercial work (renders). However, if you're talking about a for-sale prop that's different.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    In the previous post, I added volume because Boni specified it, but I think the Superfly flame looks better without adding volumetric effects, and it renders more quickly. Here's a networked Superfly animation:

    Roxie in the HiveWire Fantasy Gazebo, with BB flames in place of the glass lamps
    Roxie pirouette

    Larger version with less compression (5MB 600x600 GIF)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The animation of the flame isn't behaving correctly there. I wonder if the shader isn't working right in SuperFly. The original has flames that clearly move upward as they evolve.

    In my site's file cabinet, there is a file Fire4.avi that demonstrates the animation. It looks completely different from that gif -- faster and moving upwards.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Yeah, and using bias (to adjust amount of flame filling a mesh) seemed to be ineffective, but I haven't run tests to investigate.

    Maybe I should use the simple scene with just a torch/match and floor, and run comparison animations to verify the issue with non-rising flames, with the goal of identifying what factor(s) in which node(s) is amiss.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @bagginsbill Unfortunately I was thinking commercial project. I certainly understand and respect your stand. I am in collaboration with a vendor and need a good flame shader to texture for her.



  • How to create realistic fire in poser? bon-fire. Any body can teach me?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Which version of Poser? Firefly, Superfly, or "don't care"? Does the bonfire already have a flame mesh? 3D mesh or a billboard? For still shots, or are you going to use it in animation?


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