can't get rid of weird outlines around the eyes
When I create content on my own system using imported genesis 2 actors I was getting these weird outlines around different parts of the body. Most recognizable around the eye lashes..
They were also showing up in renders. So really not good.
On my own system/work I was able to get rid of them by doing subdivision off...
But when I get scenes from my freelancer who is working on a PC, when I do subdivision off we lose the textures also...
Any tips on how to either A) get these outlines turned off without messing with SubDivision, or B) fix the textures after turning SubDivision off?
Seems like we'd want to keep subdivision on. Thanks for any advice/help!
And yes the lines show up on the renders...
I was able to get rid of the lines by turning off the subdivision, doing a "save as" then loading that version. Then I had the functionality back of being using "subdivision off" to get rid of the lines. Although I'm not sure I can get that to repeat. It worked once and I hope I can get it to work again. Seems awfully buggy.
So anyway... what if I need the subdivision? Then do I have to choose between subdivision and lines? Seems like there should be a way to turn off these lines and keep subdivision on.
The color of the outlines is being controlled by the "foreground color" setting. I can't set this color to transparent.
But according to the manual:
"The Foreground color affects the color of the Silhouette, Outline, Wireframe, and Hidden Line display modes (see “Chapter 6: The Display Controls and Menu” on page 114)."
So then I went to the display control, clicked element, then selected the face and picked "Texture Shaded" and this seems to have fixed it. It also changes the render settings of the skin a little. For example the shading part was shrunken a little to make room for that line, and with Texture Shaded selected the shading goes all the way to the line.
Unfortunately, I can't just select the actor/body and pick texture shaded using Figure Display Style to fix it for everything. If I change the figure display style to something else and then back to texture shaded, the lines just come back. And I can't just select it as a document style, same thing happens.
To get these lines to go away it has to be done body part by body part. And sometimes when I change it, it goes back to that grey/non-textured version of the body. Or worse it will appear as if there are overlapping geometries. Like the body is there twice, once shaded correctly and once shaded gray (textureless).
I can only assume that during import from DSON the settings gets messed up for some objects. So this might be a fix. But it isn't THE fix. It's still acting odd.
Also, I don't think it's sticking. Like if I save and reload the scene, it's going back to the outline mode. But also during load it is re-importing geometry from DSON. So likely that is where the issue is, and saving and reloading just makes that issue happen again.
Maybe there's a way to make a script to set that display style for each body part.??
@badweasel that does not look like a Poser color picker. I've been using Poser since version1 on Macs and PC's and I've never seen a color picker like that.
@ghostship I'm on mac 10.12.3. If you select Foreground from the Display menu you get this color picker. If you use the eyedropper at the bottom right of the viewer you get the one you're talking about. But yeah that's the standard mac color picker.
Tell me how to get a better color picker that has the 4th channel and I'll be golden.
So here's another clue:
See the shoulder was still showing the wrong style. When I select it and check the setting in the menu it shows that it is "Outline" style. And then I can say "Use Figure Style" and the line goes away.
But I saved and reloaded the scene and all the outlines were back.
How come all these years the solution to the outline problem was assumed to be the subdivision level? When it really appears that there is something else going on. Can anyone point me to a quickstart guide on making a script? I just want a script to itterate through the body parts and set the "Object Style" to "Use Figure Style" for each one. Anyone good at scripting? I'll pay you to make this script for me.
Well, I fixed it. Sort of. I wrote a script myself to fix it.
After a lot of frustrating testing and trouble shooting I figured out a few things.
Set Subdivision 0, 1, or OFF are scripts. They simply grab the "body" actor for the currently selected figure and set the parameter "SubDivisionLevel" accordingly (to 0,1, or -1). That's all they do. But somehow in doing this, they are also setting the display style for the other body parts. I wrote a script that checks the display style for each actor (body part) in the currently selected figure. So when you do Subdivision 0 or 1 and then run my script you get results like:
Genesis 2 Female is selected
Body is 10
CenterOfMass is 2
GoalCenterOfMass is 10
Hip is 2
Hip-EndPnt is 10
Pelvis is 2
Pelvis-EndPnt is 10
Left Thigh is 2
Left Shin is 2
Left Shin-EndPnt is 10
Left Foot is 2
Left Foot-EndPnt is 10
Left Toes is 2
Left Toes-EndPnt is 10
Left Big Toe is 2
See all those 2's? That's the Outline style. 10 is Texture Shaded.
Then when you run the Subdivision Off script and run my script all those 2's are shown as back to 10's. This means that somehow simply changing the subdivision property is also changing the display modes on some body parts to outline.
So I then modified my script to actually change the display style to either hardcoded at 10 or to use "KDisplayCodeUSEPARENTSTYLE" which should just pick whatever the body is set to.
This actually works. Sort of. The problem is that these values don't stick when you save and reload the scene. I suspect this is because the DSON Importer is bringing in the geometry and setting the subdivision level it's resetting those display styles. Not a big deal because you can just run my script again. Weellll...
At least on this one scene, if I open the file and immediately run my script to fix the display style I get this double geometry on some of the body parts. This project has been giving me a lot of problems. But my work around is to select the face and set it manually before running the script. This seems to help but isn't 100%. On other projects so far the script has been working pretty good. I added them to my Scripts Menu for easy access.
If you need these scripts let me know. I will post them on my website when I get the chance.
@badweasel are your final renders going to be in sketch render mode? This last image you posted looks like there is a duplicate G2 figure in the same place and that is what is causing the white junk on the neck and arm. Check to see if you have two of the same genesis figure loaded into the scene and fighting for the same space.
@ghostship I've certainly seen that effect, not with DSON, but with a proxy I was using for a cloth sim, I'd made it not visible, but it still seemed to be 'casting shadows', actually the moire effect was quite cool, but not what I was after in the shot it was in :)
badweasel last edited by badweasel
This post is deleted!
IT WOULDN'T LET ME EDIT AFTER THE FACT - So here is my post with the corrections:
@ghostship Yes, my final render will be sketch. Otherwise I'd probably just do it all in Daz.
Yes, that's what I was saying, that it looked like double geometry. But there is only one Genesis 2 Female in the scene. So I suspected that something in my freelancer's process was causing the single female actor to have double geometry. FINALLY, I found the answer in the Hierarchy list. And then I compared that list to one from a scene where the model doesn't have the double geometry. This one is from one that was working correctly:
Notice that under Body in the Female is an object called "SubD". In my scene above with the double geometry, when I turn off the subD visibility I got ONLY the gray non-textures smooth shaded figure. So to fix this model I had to turn ON the SubD and turn OFF the other body parts. Unfortunately because "Body" is a parent if I turn that one off it turns off everything below it. So each items visibility has to be tweaked individually one at a time, leaving the "Body" visibility alone.
Now that I've played with it some more, I think that subdivision on or off might be using the different versions of the geometry. And that in this one project somehow this functionality is broken. Until I get into more of the projects I got from my freelancer I won't know if this is an isolated thing or a real issue. And even then I won't know if it's isolated to just his system or if it's a widespread thing.
The scene I created here on my own system does do the weird eye outlines thing, but is doing this "double-geometry" thing differently, where the extra geometry is still texture shaded and therefore it's harder to tell if both geometries are there at the same time. The hierarchy on mine appears to have the same visibility. So I probably need to make a script to fix these visibility settings with one menu click.
With Genesis 2 figures it appears that SubDivision is turning on the Outline Display Style on individual body parts. The old "fix" of turning off subdivision does fix it but you shouldn't have to sacrifice smooth geometry rendering to avoid the outlines. You can go part by part and change the display style but that takes a lot of time and it appears to have to be redone each time you reload your project. So my script will fix this problem and fix the display style on all body parts with one click.
But these figures also have a "SubD" object which seems to be double geometry. And it appears that this extra copy of the geometry is used when you have subdivision on. And this is where it gets complicated. Because it appears that with one of my projects (that was originated on the pc), there was problem where the SubD geometry was rendering properly but the normal geometry was rendering incorrectly and fighting for pixels with this SubD version.
And in testing, the "weird outlines" problem can be fixed either way, by fixing individual body part display styles, or by turning off visibility for the individual parts - as the "SubD" object has the display style set properly. But that even in the project I created on my mac it appears that when subdivision is turned on both geometries are present and "fighting" for pixels, but since they have the same texture it's hard to tell that. And therefore I think the better solution is to turn off visibility for the body parts if subdivision is on. So I will eventually create a script to fix this via both routes, display style AND visibility. And to toggle visibility back on for if you want to work with subd turned off.
It is also important to note that if you turn off the visibility for each of the parts as a fix, and then turn subdivision off, your actor will disappear from the scene. And this is further verification that subdivision off uses the individual body part geometry and subdivision on at any level uses the "SubD" uses the geometry in that object. And also shows the need for the suite of scripts.
When I get time I'll post my scripts on my blog.
NOT SO FAST...
So I had been testing all of this on a single pose of my character without doing any animation. Just trying to get it to look right. But then weird things started happening. I guess when you turn off visibility on the body parts I guess you can no longer move them or something. Maybe it's not updating the SubD geometry to match. I don't know whats happening but..
POSER IS SO FREAKING BUGGY!!!
Why should I have to figure this crap out? Genesis 2 characters should be smooth sailing by now.
Why is a version 11 piece of software so buggy and unprofessional? It is so hard to do anything in here.
@badweasel Now you know why I avoided using Genesis ever. I feel your pain, dude. There are a couple of users here that like that self punishment like @lululee which has a script that imports GF3 an such. He might be able to help.
@ghostship Yeah I needed to be able to buy assets. The built in stuff for poser wasn't going to cut it. Daz has a lot of decent assets. Although admittedly a lot of the stuff there is a little too pubescent for professional work.
I have a freaking deadline of basically yesterday. I don't have much of a budget so I hired a guy off Upwork who is doing a decent job but we're dealing with all these technical issues, first of the import and the, then the handoff, and now this subdivision outline problem.
And also it's a little outside of my comfort zone to do much body animation. It's so hard to get anything done in Poser. Not to mention that the human body is complex and I think you have to be pretty good to get realistic movements. Luckily I've chosen 12fps and the sketch renderer which will hide a few faults. But I'm starting to worry if I'll be able to get this done even by next friday.
The outlines are tied to the subd geometry, and visa versa. Even if I start from scratch and drag in a fresh Gen2 character. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with importing from PC. That's just the way they are.
Even with my tricks.. if I turn off the outlines using the menu of Display Style or my script (which does the same thing) the subdivision is gone and I'm left with the blocky character. The only way I've managed to get the outlines off is by turning off visibility on the regular body parts and then that breaks the ability to animate the character. The SubD must get it's geometry from the visible layers. So DSON import is just broken as far as I can tell.
It's so completely frustrating to have spent all this money between buying Poser Pro (which is a horrible frustrating product by the way), buying all these assets in Daz, and paying for an animator to do work - and have these stupid problems.
If the outline is only an issue when rendering, and fixing that breaks posing. Can you not live with the outline issue until you have everything posed correctly then use your script to turn off visibility on the subd? and then render?
@amethystpendant Thanks. The outlines make it really hard to pose the characters and get realistic expressions. Actually, it's probably a better plan to do it the other way around and live with lower poly geometry (subd off has no outlines) until render time. And actually if that's a little lower poly I can live with it - If I have to.
I originally posted here because of the gray body parts and hopefully that was a one off thing. At least so far it has been.
I'm a total noob at poser. I usually avoid character animation but for this project I need it. It's a 4 min piece with about 1/2 to 2/3rds being character driven stuff. But a lot of it is simple animation. I needed to get it done in 1 week but that week is gone. I have no choice but to add a week to the schedule and hope that I can complete it this week. Since I can decide the style I'm going to resort to tricks like low frame rate animation maybe even with dissolves between them. But I really want to avoid uncanny dead soulless looking actors. And I think it takes a better animator than me to pull that off. :)
My freelancer certainly helped. But I have a lot of changes to make and I suspect I'll be tweaking all week.
@badweasel Well good luck, and please don't hesitate to reach out to the group and we will all try to help. I know it's too late now but I'm sure the general advice before you started would be go with Gen 4 figures rather than Genesis :(
@amethystpendant gen4 being generation 4 of poser figures? vs genesis2 of daz?
The genesis2 figure is so much more realistic in my opinion. Plus all the poses and expressions. It's a far superior model IMHO.
I'm starting a new thread to ask an animation question.
Have you tried exporting Genesis 2 from DS as a cr2 instead of using DSON?
Sounds to me like DSON importer is causing most of your problems, not Poser.