PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources


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    @seachnasaigh
    Correct, but the OP asked for PP20104 and FireFly.


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    @vilters The same complex night scene, rendered in Firefly with raytracing , indirect light, subsurface scattering, and displacement engaged, would also take a long time.



  • Thanks for the replies, everyone!

    I'll post my render settings shortly, I'm just waiting for the settings window to come up (it has been over four minutes since I clicked it... yes, it takes that long!) then I'll screenie it and pop it over. I've overhauled my render settings multiple times after posting here and on Rendo and taking advice, so I'm confident that it is about as good as I'm going to get, and I rarely change them, only to add DOF etc.

    Render threads, IIRC, are set properly (won't know until the window opens... pitch a tent, we're here all night!)

    Render in separate process is something I've done for years.

    Render in queue has been buggy since before PP2014 for me; just a simple render of an empty scene takes, no joke here, WEEKS, but never completes because, as soon as my PC is shut off for any reason, it wipes it. I've given up on queue these days.

    Priority is what I think is needed. Yes, decreasing rendering time would be an obvious advantage, but even if it took an hour, it would still be an hour with a cucumber instead of a PC.

    My scenes usually render ok, within the hour and without the drama, but there are scenes which just drain the life out of my PC. This one is probably the most demanding ever; it is an outdoor scene featuring a complex pool resort, featuring a load of rails using EZMetals chrome shaders, a refracting water shader for the pools, non-refracting glass for the windows, with RT reflections and many, many intricate meshes for furnishings etc. There are a few mesh lights and IDL is always used in my work. I have two 'lights' in my scene; an infinite 'Sun' and an infinite 'filler' light which doesn't cast shadows. The latter is set to a very low percentage, but the former is extremely bright, as it should be.

    Being an outdoor scene, I've really struggled to get the lighting right with this, but I think I've just about managed it now, going by the results so far. I won't know for sure until I can examine the render properly though.

    While we wait for it to take its precious time and load the render settings, here's a look at an old render of the scene, showing the lighting I used to use and the pool water, which I'm still using on this latest project.

    ***=NSFW content***

    click to show



  • Render settings (Please note that these settings were NOT used for the render I just posted; that was posted as an example of the scene complexity)
    0_1495251689896_picture120.jpg



  • Oops, sorry, I forgot to mention:

    I read somewhere that, with Poser, changing the priority can make it crash. Is this the case here, or would it remain stable?

    Cheers.


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    @Glen85 said in PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources:

    ... I'm just waiting for the settings window to come up (it has been over four minutes since I clicked it... yes, it takes that long!)

    Hmmm... that hints at another cause of your problems. I would classify your scene as simple, so it's not that.



  • Here's an example render of the scene I'm working with. Obviously adding characters adds more to the render time.
    Just a note to the forum people: Please get rid of this stupid size limit for image uploads! This is a graphics forum; what's the point of that? I need to be uploading the images I'm producing, as they are when they are exported from your software. Not only that, but as a dyscalculic soul, it is an enormous task to resize an image in pixels to make it a file size in MB and compare that size to your size in KB! Hard work, unnecessary, please stop!
    0_1495365430756_3576816854.png



  • @Glen85 You could convert the pics to jpeg for upload to here. There's not really a need to upload a 4mb .png image like your last pic.
    For example, here is your last pic, but it's now only a 645kb jpg as opposed to a 4,040.77kb png. I used Irfanview to 'save for web' to convert it and personally can't see any image difference.

    0_1495377819471_png2jpgtest.jpg



  • @Glen85

    Hi Glen

    Here is the render which I've rendered last night

    alt text

    Its rendered only at 1920x1200 and render took me 2 hours to render and if I would render that at 4k resolution I would say this render will took 3-4 hours maybe less didn't tried,I assume you do render at 4k 3840x2160

    For lighting I've used 2 infinite suns,one sun at 100% with enabled shadows and second which acts as fill light without the enabled shadows at 25%

    I would as above use Render in separate process,lower bucket size at 32 which should lower RAM usage,please check how much RAM yours Poser using,my scene took from RAM 2.5GB as FFrender plus Poser 2.5GB,I don't ever used render in queue which is as you said buggy

    Do you have yours Poser on SSD or normal HDD and yours runtimes are on normal HDD I assume,yours CPU is 4 core/8 thread and you should set on all available cores,when I render in Separate process or Use own process I can use my PC easy and without the problem,with unticked Use Own Process or Separate Process simply PC is unusable or you can' t use PC as with enabled Use Own Process/Separate Process

    Settings you have same which I do use and which works for me there when I do use,just please try render with Separate process

    alt text

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura



  • @raven said in PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources:

    @Glen85 You could convert the pics to jpeg for upload to here. There's not really a need to upload a 4mb .png image like your last pic.

    I didn't even think of that, as jpg is my go-to format these days and has been for years! In which case, my apologies. I'll try to remember in future.

    @jura11

    Thank you for this!

    I run the render in a separate process, have done for years now. I don't know how much CPU and RAM it uses precisely, but it's more or less 100%, as I can close literally everything up and just have it sitting there, rendering and continually freezing up and going nuts. The Poser .exe is on my C drive, but the runtimes and temp folders are on an external and a secondary internal drive respectively.



  • That's OK, it's not really a problem for me but it does make it a bit easier for people with slower connections or limited download limits and a bit easier on the uploads for you too :)



  • I meant to say that png is my go-to and has been for years. Ugh. Stupid bipolar making me feel crappy and making my mind fart all the time.


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    @Glen85
    Hi Glen, I took the liberty of looking at your render settings and my comments are only for the items I would change:

    • Bucket Size at 64 => Overall a Bucket Size of 32 seems the most economical in FireFly render times.
    • Pixel Samples at 6 => This is on the edge of overkill. 4 to 5 are all that's required to get very good quality.
    • Shading Rate at 0.1 => This is a tricky one. Poser defaults to 0.2 for everything in the scene unless...... Unless you set a lower value in each and every vertex group. => Poser will only use that 0.1 setting if that 0.1 if it is set in that particular vertex group.
      So = MSR is always defaulting to 0.2 anyway. (Unless you adapted it in each and every vertex group concerned.) => This is in the manual.
    • Displacement is checked ON but you leave the value at 0.0. Better to set some value here depending on the use of a displacement map.
    • Bounces are high at 4. (I mostly use 1 to 2 and use 3 about once a year).
    • Filter => Use Sync in 3 to get the "sharpest" results.

    Best regards, Tony


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    @vilters said in PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources:

    This is on the edge of overkill. 4 to 5 are all that's required to get very good quality.

    Or one could say 6 is minimal and 4 to 5 is inadequate if you're doing Depth of Field. Be careful in your absolute statements.


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    @vilters said in PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources:

    Displacement is checked ON but you leave the value at 0.0. Better to set some value here depending on the use of a displacement map.

    The field is "Min" displacement bounds, and therefore a setting of 0 is appropriate unless otherwise needed. Each individual actor has its own displacment bounds. The global one is used to override that and make it even higher despite what the prop says. As this is only to be done if something is broken, because it will then increase render time and memory for ALL objects, the correct value is 0.

    Bad advice, Tony.


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    @vilters said in PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources:

    Bounces are high at 4. (I mostly use 1 to 2 and use 3 about once a year).

    And I tell everybody use 4 because when they forget and they have glass surface within glass (for example a bottle), they get black refractions. I suggest you use 4 at all times and actually 6 is better. The value is not how many bounces you perform, but rather how many you will do before you refuse to do any more. It's a maximum, not the actual. Setting it higher costs nothing if your scene doesn't actually have opportunities to bounce multiple times.

    Meanwhile the OP said he's doing lots of water and glass so it may be necessary. If, for example, he can see a bottle on a table on the other side of a window, then 4 isn't even enough.


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    @Glen85 - I used to render in Firefly with similar computer spec & found that the biggest speed bumps were reflections, multiple overlapping transparencies & high samples for render DoF (i.e. more than 6). So I used to try to minimise the use of those kind of materials. With the kind of scenes you're doing I can't see any way around very long render times - speed vs. quality is usually a trade-off.

    It may be worth reducing the bucket size to 8 - I don't think it'll use less resources overall, but the buckets will finish rendering quicker. Combined with changing the priority it may make Poser a bit more responsive when you want to use another program.

    Also if the preview is slow & laggy, I would suggest using Groupings in the Hierarchy to drop items into. It's then easy to toggle visibility for lots of items in one click. IIRC the more vertices that are visible the more data Poser has to keep track of = performance drops significantly.

    While you may not want or be able to upgrade, in Poser 11 with the Superfly engine reflections & render DoF are significantly faster than Firefly, plus the lighting for outdoor scenes is simple to setup. Had to mention it ;)


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    @bagginsbill said in PP2014 FFRender Hogging Resources:

    The field is "Min" displacement bounds, and therefore a setting of 0 is appropriate unless otherwise needed. Each individual actor has its own displacment bounds. The global one is used to override that and make it even higher despite what the prop says. As this is only to be done if something is broken, because it will then increase render time and memory for ALL objects, the correct value is 0.

    This is a welcome correction to me. I have been habitually setting minimum displacement bound any time I was using displacement.



  • Thanks for the replies, everyone, some really good advice (and counter-advice) in here. This is what forums are about! Questions asked, advice given, advice from others respectfully countered, all in aid of a good final outcome! Thank you!

    On the note of upgrading... I have to admit that I have already upgraded to 11... I just can't get on with it. I'm not good with change, even though that's obviously what I need because current things aren't working for me (if things don't change, how will they improve, right?), I get that... I think it's another ASD thing... I'm learning more about it all the time.

    The biggest thing for me with the new Poser is the new layout and library. I just don't like it at all, it's jarring, it's all weird to me. Couple all of that with the all-new shading techniques involved in SF and it just gets too much to handle for me. I know I don't have to use SF, and I don't use it because, after getting the new version, I have only used it a handful of times and have just left it really. I suppose I'm my own worst enemy with that one.

    Tell you what, as you've all been awesome and helpful to me, I'm going to import the scene into the new version and render it there, with the exact same settings as before, just to give it a fair test. The settings may well not be ideal, but they ought to stay the same for the test, at least.

    I'll get back to you. :)



  • Hi folks,

    Same result, I'm afraid! All settings the same, rendered in 11 this time. Same length of time, image was identical. I stopped it before the end, as it was hogging the system just like PP2014 was. Very odd. I'll look at the render settings tomorrow.