What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?



  • One of the main reasons I don't use Poser Pro 11 (SR6) is because of a series of crashes I had during saving routines. They were unrelated incidents because they were on different computers with different scenes, and the same scenes would work well in PP2014. It was so bad this one time that during a save, both the backup and the original were somehow corrupted. I lost a lot of work because of it and decided to switch back to PP2014 permanently, since I have never had this problem with any other Poser version. In fact I've never had this with any other software at all. What use is software if your files aren't even guaranteed to get saved?

    There are other reasons I don't use PP11, but thats more to do with rigging and broken GoZ features that I need for Figure development. For comics PP11 could still be useful for me.

    PP11 has one thing I really do miss, and that is the superfast response of posing a figure in the preview window. That's probably the only thing that I like about PP11. Sometimes I use PP11 as a second instance of Poser to pose figures and copy-paste the keyframes to PP2014. While that does work nicely, it gets a bit tedious after a while.

    I'd like to get back to using PP11 for my comics, but I'm just scared of loosing lots of work this way.

    Are there other people out there that have had PP11 crash during a save? What do you think it could be? Can I avoid it somehow. Yes I can back up, like I always do, but my scenes are very big, and I can do several scenes in a day, and backing up also doesn't guarantee anything with Poser 11, and backing up constantly gets very tedious and will fill up a drive super fast. So rather avoid these crashes (which seriously shouldn't be there in the first place).

    Edit: I did have a hunch that it could be because of merging scenes since all the scenes did have something to do with it, but when I tested the idea I couldn't get a crash out of it. But then I also gave up debugging since I had enough of that for one year.



  • Not here. Poser Pro 11 has been the most stable version of Poser for me. I get an occasional crash when I render, cancel, render repeatedly, but that is definitely user error.

    What Windows version? I'm on Win7 and have no intention of upgrading to 10.



  • @Glitterati3D windows 7 too. Works fine with all programs, PP2014 never crashed on saves. I used PP11 intensively for over a year, and as far as I can tell PP11 crashes just as much as PP2014 (which is probably to say I that Poser in general crashes a lot compared to other apps so I cannot tell the difference between Poser versions lol)... but also on saves, and that got too much.



  • @Glitterati3D it happened with SR6 I think, but SR6 is the one that made posing really nice. Sigh



  • @erogenesis SR6 here too. Very stable.



  • The only time I got a crash on save involved using one of those Exnem joint fixer products along with having "use binary morph targets" checked. File got hosed when this happened.



  • @ghostship said in What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?:

    Exnem joint fixer products

    Ah. What joints are they supposed to fix?



  • I think making back ups is the only way to avoid this problem unfortunately. The crash could come from anywhere I suppose, and if its because of a bug (which I suspect) then that won't get updated for a while, especially if I cannot reproduce it.

    Now I wonder, can Poser python access, copy and paste Poser files and create folders in Windows I/O outside of Poser?

    I'm thinking of a simple python script that gets the location of the opened scene, creates a new folder in that directory (unless it already exists), and copies the scene file (pzz) into that folder as a back up.



  • @erogenesis Arms, legs and shoulders. Looks like I confused exnem with XandM (perfect V4) Can't seem to find this vendor anywhere now.



  • @ghostship I've seen some of their products over at CGBytes.



  • Yes, crash during save when autobackup is also happening.



  • @ibr_remote said in What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?:

    Yes, crash during save when autobackup is also happening.

    hehe, without sounding too smug/cynical, the moment I heard that Poser was coming with an autosave is: I'm NEVER using that. One thing Poser is not very good at is multitasking, and I just knew that Poser would happily run an autosave in the middle of a python routine, or something like that. Its like pasting a big material and then clicking too fast on "Remove Unused Nodes" = guaranteed crash.

    Edit: hang on, maybe that is the answer. Maybe PP11 does stuff in the background and if I then save it at that time, it might pile inconsistent information on the stack throwing the save routine off. Could that happen?



  • @erogenesis said in What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?:

    @ibr_remote said in What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?:

    Yes, crash during save when autobackup is also happening.

    hehe, without sounding too smug/cynical, the moment I heard that Poser was coming with an autosave is: I'm NEVER using that. One thing Poser is not very good at is multitasking, and I just knew that Poser would happily run an autosave in the middle of a python routine, or something like that. Its like pasting a big material and then clicking too fast on "Remove Unused Nodes" = guaranteed crash.

    Edit: hang on, maybe that is the answer. Maybe PP11 does stuff in the background and if I then save it at that time, it might pile inconsistent information on the stack throwing the save routine off. Could that happen?

    Yes, I get that crash all the time with the "remove unused nodes," when I'm not paying attention. Hate that.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Well guys,, i don't understand.

    I rarely get crashes, but in the 20 Poser years or so?
    I have never got them after removing unused nodes....and I user that feature "a LOT".



  • @vilters copy a large shader node, paste it into a different zone and while your courser is still spinning click on the "remove unused nodes" button on the right. This is a guaranteed crash on my W7 machine.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Ahaa, while the cursor is still spinning? Tja, in that case? I would crash too. LOL

    Blink left, but turn right. LOL.



  • I have the occasional crash in Poser 11 but never during a save action.
    My Poser saves are to a secondary harddisk in the system cabinet that powers off when not needed and speeds up obediently to accept file save.
    Maybe a matter of privileges or some african bug left in your system?



  • @vilters said in What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?:

    Ahaa, while the cursor is still spinning? Tja, in that case? I would crash too. LOL

    Blink left, but turn right. LOL.

    Hehe most software does obey Windows traffic laws to avoid crashes ;)

    @F_Verbaas said in What could cause Poser Pro 11 to crash during a save?:

    I have the occasional crash in Poser 11 but never during a save action.
    My Poser saves are to a secondary harddisk in the system cabinet that powers off when not needed and speeds up obediently to accept file save.
    Maybe a matter of privileges or some african bug left in your system?

    It happened across three computers over a period of a month with SR6. All W7 and i7 machines, identical drive and OS setup, two MSI mobos, and one HP, different scenes, similar figures (M4, PE). Scenes in my computers are saved on the D drive. Regular installations. Have worked fine under PP2014 with the normal crashes that PP2014 has. In otherwords, there's definitely nothing wrong with my systems. They are 100% airgapped. Local closed offline network. All online data traffic goes through a dedicated online computer with antivirus apps, physically disconnected from my local network. Transfer was manual, via USB drives. I worked through a VPN. Everything worked fine since 2012 with exception of one memory fail.

    PP014 has its crashes but I know it so well now I know when to expect them. So in a way you could say that PP2014 works 'stable' for me. PP2014 never crashes on saves, nor does 3DSMax, AutoCAD, Maya, Photoshop, zBrush, or any other application I know. And its not for ignoring them or not being aware of them because I would be aware of such crashes since most of my scenes are pretty big and take 1 minute to save. The DD1 scenes sometimes took 3 minutes to save. But they never failed in PP2014.

    Suspects: All scenes were big, and I think all those scenes did have a history of importing other Poser documents. Poser has a history of crashing when processes are desynchronized, that s to say you can crash poser by clicking on too many buttons at once. Poser doesn't wait for itself, you could say, and with big scenes I wouldn't be surprised if some routine gets called and gets surpassed by another thread with a different IO write process, causing it to crash. Poser also has a history of not having inbuilt failsafes for the most basic things, like cramming the texture cache until the drive is full, and then some. Guaranteed crash. All scenes saved fine in PP2014, in fact now I remember once incident that PP11 crashed on save after a scene was imported. The same actions didn't crash PP2014.

    So its definitely Poser Pro 11, and not an African bug. We just step on those ;)



  • I think it could be isolated to the save routine but it would require dedicated testing.

    So I had a series of devastating crashes that resulted in corrupted scene files.

    One possibility was corrupted memory modules, which does cause corrupted scene files like I saw with an artist friend of mine. But this was not the case with me because 1) PP2014 didn't have that problem with those scenes, and 2) those same PCs are still 100% functional and no other software has shown any faults.

    Another possibility, albeit very slim, is the Malawian power grid fluctuations that affected my system despite my UPS. I've noticed that since I've been in the UK, I haven't had any BSOD's yet, whereas in Malawi I got a few per month while rendering. So I could only link that to the power grid because that's the only thing that has changed. But I am certain that this cannot be the cause since all my other software kept on working fine, including PP2014, despite the power grid fluctuations.

    The reason I suspect the save routine is because of one incident where backing up a saved scene to a copy corrupted BOTH files. So one pzz was already 'saved', but then when the second was in the process of saving, pzz crashed (it must be noted that I had used kinect capture for this scene, and I've noticed that kinect capture + animation layers makes a scene unstable). So anyway, both were corrupt. Assuming (and I say this carefully) that Poser doesn't edit a file when reading from it, like with most software, that means that the save routine corrupted the original pzz already, while Poser was working fine, and then ran into the same problem during a second save to overwriting the backup, this time resulting in a crash.

    Because its just once incident, its not much to go on, but since I have literally NEVER seen that before in other software, I find it very suspicious.

    What do you think?



  • I've gotten Python error messages when saving.
    The .pz3 files seem to reload just fine though...
    Interesting....