Oddity With Bump ?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @bagginsbill

    I used to be a "Displacement man". LOL.

    Never cared for Normal maps as they are so end user unfriendly.
    (They were the first ones to go under the "Delete hammer" anyway, and recently I simply stopped installing them completely.)

    These PP11 days? => I converted to a "Bump Guy". LOL.

    End used friendly and it works everywhere.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in Oddity With Bump ?:

    @bagginsbill

    I used to be a "Displacement man". LOL.

    Never cared for Normal maps as they are so end user unfriendly.
    (They were the first ones to go under the "Delete hammer" anyway, and recently I simply stopped installing them completely.)

    These PP11 days? => I converted to a "Bump Guy". LOL.

    End used friendly and it works everywhere.

    I agree. I have always found neat things I can do with bump that just isn't workable with normals.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'm doing lighting testing with geometry (a real sphere), a bump mapped square, and a normal mapped square.

    The light is an infinite light, elevated 45 degrees. I'm rendering with various yRotate values.

    FireFly renders in this post.

    Here is yRotate 0 (light is behind the camera) -- clearly the Normal map knows which direction is the sun, but the shading is just wrong.

    0_1496152819748_upload-0d578115-3cec-43ed-aedf-e7897c5a3f25

    yRotate 30 -- still wrong on the normal map
    0_1496152856860_upload-9f94ff8d-4e32-4789-82bb-3213e0a60d4d

    yRotate 60
    0_1496152880651_upload-80b598c5-11cb-4a10-9af8-185229009e48

    yRotate 90 -- this is the ONLY case where the normal map behaves correctly - so DO NOT JUST TEST LIKE THIS or you'll think there is no problem.
    0_1496152904001_upload-41135235-4e3c-402b-8e9d-f6df8e8e7b0a

    yRotate 120 -- light is now behind the props -- bump showing a little difficulty at the bottom, but the normal is just stupid
    0_1496153000177_upload-5d689a74-b3fc-4642-8fb0-2b1a8aa8e015

    yRotate 180 -- the normal map has given up completely - total junk
    0_1496153044956_upload-2e551af9-39c4-4678-b16b-c5b4ea6be13f


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here are identical setups but rendered with SuperFly. Here, the normal is generated the same in the shader, but the render is very much different. Clearly FireFly is broken.

    But! I do see some error in SuperFly handling the SHADOW side with the indirect light. It turns out FireFly did this better than we see here. Peculiar.

    0_1496153258103_upload-55ad067d-4982-4aed-b5f8-7b8166842420
    0_1496153305807_upload-1b940331-3b2c-4ea0-8b3f-2573b0fc8ec1
    0_1496153355555_upload-fc5176de-be3c-45b8-aa10-98766a55057a
    Here we are at yRotate = 90 and SuperFly is now making a mistake on the lit side as well -- the same mistake with bump or normal. It's not lit as bright as it should be. Sigh...
    0_1496153429267_upload-cdd139f4-cf79-4d54-a80c-db2a7ea2b1ac
    And at yRotate = 120, SuperFly has completely lost its marbles. My God -- is it so hard to implement a damn renderer? I know real-time GAMES that do better than this. Jeez.
    0_1496153524523_upload-b091d671-57bf-4822-bcca-72b4ed00416b
    I almost didn't bother with the 180 degree case, but I'm here already so blah.
    0_1496153600023_upload-cced073a-4266-4af0-a88a-609ce73cf21f

    I'm seriously disappointed with BOTH renderers.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Moral of the story

    Do not waste your time with normals in either FF or SF - just, seriously, don't waste your time.

    If you have to use something, use bump, and recognize that SF is actually not as good at this as FF is. On top of that insult, SF is slower. But if you actually want a realistic picture, then use real geometry.



  • @bagginsbill said in Oddity With Bump ?:

    Moral of the story
    Do not waste your time with normals in either FF or SF - just, seriously, don't waste your time.
    If you have to use something, use bump, and recognize that SF is actually not as good at this as FF is. On top of that insult, SF is slower. But if you actually want a realistic picture, then use real geometry.

    A beautiful way to end this thread ! Thank you.