How SM can turn Poser's market share around....



  • Let me add another:
    I have 6 .obj files, un-grouped, that are morph targets for my update version of the V4-to-Many Prefitter. Meshes represent the various target figures: Roxie; Pauline; Adwoman; Bella; Miki3/4; and Dawn
    I have also a V4-rigged version of the same mesh, and I have managed to have all body parts have morphs called Roxie; Pauline, etc. I want to make a dial at body level for each targer figure of course.

    That should be a breeze. Poser 11 Pro Manual says on page 793:

    To create a full-body morph target:

    1. Create morph targets for as many body parts as you wish. Refer to this section for assistance if needed.
    2. Morph each body part using the new Parameter dials as discussed in “Parameters Palette” on page 216. Set them to the values you want to appear in the full-body morph. For example, setting the Bulging Bicep value to 0.5 means that the full body morph, when set to 1, will morph that part of the figure as if you had applied the original morph with a value of 0.5.
    3. Select the entire figure, then select Figure > Create Full Body Morph. Enter a name for your new morph in the Set Name dialog that appears. When you select the figure’s body again, a parameter dial with your new morph target
      will appear. This morph functions just like any other morph: Numbers greater than 0 apply the morph to the selected element(s), and vice versa. A value of 1 means the morph target is fully applied, a value of -1 means the morph is completely inverted, and numbers grater than +/-1 create exaggerated effects. Using the Bulging Bicep example, a value of 1 applies the bulge fully, a value of -1 applies a full concavity (the reverse of the original morph), and so forth.

    Ok: I did step 1 and in step 2 I set the dials for the Roxie morph in all body parts to 1.0.
    Then I do step 3 to find that the full body morph dial is created and calibrated to let value 0.0 corresponds to Roxie morphs in body parts being applied value 1.0, so contrary to what the manual says.
    Now what is this? Miscommunication? Program error that is not solved after 6 service releases???



  • I just found the answer: the procedure is incomplete!
    Added feature since this part of the manual was written is 'Master Synched'. The body part dials were still on 1.0, so the body level dial input did add to the body part dial input.
    To get the thing working as described of course the body part dial should have been set to 0.0.
    Workaround is easy: 'Zero Figure' sets the whole system right in line.

    Select the entire figure, then select Figure > Create Full Body Morph. Enter a name for your new morph in the Set Name dialog that appears. Then Zero the Figure to reset the dependency system. When you select the figure’s body again, a parameter dial with your new morph target will appear.



  • @Glitterati3D said in How SM can turn Poser's market share around....:

    @fbs7 But, that's all how YOU use it, not everyone.

    It strikes me as odd that we have plenty of new users come in this forum and, yet, none of them ask those kinds of questions.....

    Hey, I can only speak for myself, as a hobby user since Poser 4, I can't speak for everyone. Some may see a point that a customer using the product for 10-15 years still has no idea what several options in the main menu are about (point being that excess complexity in plain may scare away new users), while others may hope that someday I'll get it, haha :^D



  • @F_Verbaas

    "Now what is this? Miscommunication? Program error that is not solved after 6 service releases???"

    Perhaps a documentation bug that should be reported. Few of them are reported at all. The best place to report them is in Mantis, things tend to get lost, overlooked, and hard to find in the forums.



  • @Deecey
    Thank you.
    Pardon my ignorance: Mantis being what and where?



  • @F_Verbaas
    Ah ... Mantis is the place where beta testers report bugs. If you are not a beta tester, perhaps you can ask someone to report the documentation bug for you if they have access to it.



  • @redphantom now define "intuitive". I get completely lost in Studio. Can't find anything. But Poser's just like puttering around in my back yard. On the other hand, I've heard th same complaint from the other side.



  • @eclark1849
    Same here about Studio, and this highlights the point I raised before: What is intuitive for a user and what is not totally depends on his or her background, subject matter knowledge, and so on. It is highly subjective

    @all
    Reading back my post on the full body morph I see that knowing how Poser deals with spawning a morph target for an object I deform with a magnet (the influence the magnet has is remains, I have to kill that manually before I can test my morph dial), I should not have expected Poser to do any different for ful body morphs. In that sense the behaviour I expected should have been counter-intuitive to me. LOL!

    That being said for full body morphs resetting all dials affected is a tedious job, and users are prone to make mistakes by forgetting one, ruining up their further work. 'Zero figure' does the job but it is a pretty big bazooka.

    In this example, Poser deals with the operation of creating a full body morph from a program perspective: it creates the dial and that's it. Mission completed. The user on the other hand simply wants to be able to morph the figure from one dial and reasonably expects the system that the result of his action will be a dial in the body actor that works the way it is intended to work. and if possible all old rubbish cleaned.
    This is where 'intuitive' comes in. Large part of it is thinking from the human side and not from the program(mer's) side. The guy who teached us application programming some 30 years ago insisted on us writing the manual first. I was oone of the subject matter experts and in those days the subject matter expert was expected to do everything: model development, concept design, programming, testing, and documentation, promotion and support. No need to say that we suffered heavily and had bad sales because our superb technology was delivered in shaggy environment. We, with pain, learned that if you find it difficult to explain how the user can use your program, or if your manual text shows there are loops, holes or dead ends in the workflow, you have to fix that first.
    In today's lingo: the client experience of the whole product is as good as the experience of the part that is failing. That is for me the matter with Studio: I cannot make head or tail of the content libraries , so I quit there, right at the beginning and go back to Poser. Better fight a devil you know.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fbs7 said in How SM can turn Poser's market share around....:

    But if I was a brand new user, and I opened Poser the first time, and then I found some 60 different submenu entries on the top menu alone, many of them with arcane like "Merge all zones into weight maps", or "Copy measurements from", or "Convert hier file", I'd think this thing is too complicated for me.

    Those are features that should only be showing up if you've bought the Pro version. If you're brand new to Poser and 3D in general then a better choice might be standard Poser or even Poser debut which won't have all those additional menu options, until you've familiarized yourself with the basics and want to upgrade, or unless you're interested in learning what all of those things do from the beginning. There's a lot more learning resources out there than just the manual. Smith Micro and Renderosity both have rather extensive youtube channels with tutorials ranging from 5 minutes to 3 hours each. The basics haven't changed much since Poser 4 or 5, there's just been more features added.



  • Not to mention that if you start with Debut you are at least familiar with the interface and as your interest/skill/familiarity increase you are still in the same interface/playspace. With 'simplistic' approaches you end up outgrowing the thing and having to step up and learn something far more complex all over from scratch. There's a TON of stuff I don't go near in Blender, but maybe one day... and I wont have to start from scratch.



  • About two and a half years ago I was a brand new Poser user. So I watched an approx. 1 hour SM video on you tube, getting started with Poser no 1 or something like that and found very quickly that I could create something resembling a scene.
    I think the BASICS of Poser are very intuitive. Want to load something? Find it in the library and double click or drag and drop. Want to move something? Drag and drop it around the scene the same way you move anything in windows. These are the sort of things you need to be able to do as a complete newbie.
    Problems with morph targets? You don't even know what a morph target is. If you read some of the post on the new poser users board at Rendo, you are more likely to get questions like "How do I apply the morphs from a character set I've just bought" than "Why am I having trouble transferring full body morphs from z-brush to Poser" from the real new users.
    There are still many features of Poser I have never used. If I don't need them to do what I want to do they don't bother me. If there is something I want to do that I don't know how, then I try to find out how to do that specific thing.
    As many people have pointed out, being intuitive to you depends on your experiences. If you are new to 3D, even many of the terms used are far from obvious.



  • @j.naylor73 That's where I struggled at first, too.......the terms.

    It's pretty hard to research how to do something like a JCM if you don't know what it's called.

    And, then there's things like "morph" which when searched on the internet brings up millions of pages unrelated to 3D.

    3D has a pretty unique terminology and understanding that part can be the most daunting to a newbie. I think that's where the Poser user manual shines.



  • My favorite user manual of all time, believe it or not, was the Hexagon user manual. I have no idea if it has been updated, but the original manual had a small, embedded video with each function. It was a tiny thing, and only covered that specific command, but enough to say, "yes, that is what I am trying to do" while watching it.



  • @Glitterati3D said in How SM can turn Poser's market share around....:

    My favorite user manual of all time, believe it or not, was the Hexagon user manual. I have no idea if it has been updated, but the original manual had a small, embedded video with each function. It was a tiny thing, and only covered that specific command, but enough to say, "yes, that is what I am trying to do" while watching it.

    Now THAT's what I'd like to see with every software manual. I only used Hex for a couple of months because it kept crumbling on my laptop, so gave up with it, but a small/tiny video (or corresponding paragraph or two) on how to use a specific function goes a long way to show n00bs how to use something they're not familiar with.

    A manual without such information is useless to me, and has been ever since I got into 3D.



  • @Miss-B Well, I do prefer the written word myself. Preferably step by step instructions with pictures and diagrams if possible. I don't like having to rewind videos or play them over and over.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Long time ago, when I got Hexagon with the "free DAZ deal", the video's were already gone.
    Then I discovered Blender purely by accident. (Was working in anim8or at the time)
    Tons of video's, but, not exactly-exactly Poser related.
    Always, just "not exactly" the info I was looking for at the time.
    => Study and hard work and many deep dark nights full of experiments, got me over it.

    Then I discovered that many had the same questions as I had.
    So?
    When I got a bulletproof workflow going, I started making tutorial video's to help out other end users that often had the same questions unanswered.
    => That's how the Poser2Blender2Poser series started.

    Short, easy to follow video's giving answers to specific Poser questions between Poser and Blender.

    • How to load things from Poser in Blender?
    • How do I create and load a morph?
    • How about a FBM?
    • I want more detail in my figures? (2 video's)
    • How about the ground plane? (2 video's)
    • Why do some things not work? => Video 4 is a good example of that one.

    Total of 3.350 views so far.
    Not many by any standard, but I hope I got at least some people going in the right direction.
    Best regards, Tony



  • @eclark1849 said in How SM can turn Poser's market share around....:

    @Miss-B Well, I do prefer the written word myself. Preferably step by step instructions with pictures and diagrams if possible. I don't like having to rewind videos or play them over and over.

    I do too, but a short 20-30 second video I can live with. I much prefer written (PDF) tutorials with screenshots/renders as well.



  • @vilters I have those tutorials, and have them linked in my long, ever growing, Blender related links on the Blender forum at HiveWire. ~wink~



  • @Miss-B said in How SM can turn Poser's market share around....:

    @eclark1849 said in How SM can turn Poser's market share around....:

    @Miss-B Well, I do prefer the written word myself. Preferably step by step instructions with pictures and diagrams if possible. I don't like having to rewind videos or play them over and over.

    I do too, but a short 20-30 second video I can live with. I much prefer written (PDF) tutorials with screenshots/renders as well.

    People have different learning styles and it is difficult to accommodate them all in one manual.

    Meanwhile most technical writers seem to have just one style ("eye bleeding, narcolepsy inducing boring") that manages to fail most who struggle through them. I think this is in part due to the fact that the manual writers are not the programmers or even end users. If they are either of those groups, they are not great writers also.

    You really need a power user and a good writer together making a manual, and no one wants to spring for that. It is the sort of thing that would attract new users though.

    Maybe a set of project based tutorials with videos.
    how to make this scene/ animation with lots of explanations on how and why. Cover various aspects of the software so user comes away with medium skills.



  • It doesn't matter how many tutorials you have on advanced features, you have to look at how many people will actually use those features, what drives the market is content, content, content, otherwise we still would have RDNA around.

    Go and have a look at what ex RDNA vendors are now selling - is Colm bringing out anything for Poser? Even Stonemason seems to have abandoned Poser, all we now get is .obj files.

    Sure V4 still works fine but is the new user to Poser going to be happy with that or with jumping through hoops to use Genesis 2 or Genesis 3? - I don't think so.

    It would be interesting to see how many of the Poser user base have abandoned it simply to use the new toys that DAZ churns out - I'm certain you would be surprised by the actual number.

    Sadly content creators are going to follow the money, which leaves SM with a huge gap to fill, after all a quick look at the content provided with Poser. it still has a lot of stuff in it that has been there since Poser 3 (my first version, so don't know if it was in earlier versions)

    I don't know if it is doable but if SM included a figure with soft body dynamics already built in, I think they would be on a winner - being able to pose a figure with crossed legs and have the flesh deform where the legs intersect would add so much realism to renders. Let's face it the click, pose and render crowd is where the money is and somehow SM has to win them back from the DAZ juggernaut.

    And as I have said before here we are still playing with trans-mapped hair first seen in Poser 4 and conforming clothes - again Poser 4 technology.

    I could go on but I've said my bit on dynamic hair before and I won't even go near the fitting room, especially if you are dealing with body suits.

    That's my 2 bob's worth...