All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW



  • @richard60 said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    @erogenesis The less jiggle makes sense when you consider the physics is making guesses as to what come next. So if I have a ball and throw it at a sheet, the ball moves 10" per frame and will be stopped by the mass of the sheet @ a rate of 7.5" per frame and gravity is in effect so it will also be moving towards the ground @ 16' per second ^2. The sheet will not move until the ball arrives.

    Hm, are you sure? Because the way I see it, its a matter of intercepting and if the sheets intercepts the ball, the ball will have a vector velocity regardless of the impact physics and calculate it from there. The way the sheet react would still be according to the relationships its vertices have been assigned, which ideally would have their spacial distribution included. Whether or not the ball was intercepted wouldn't matter to how the mesh reacts, ideally. Of course the chance the ball gets intercepted is higher with higher rate of calculations, and the resulting impact dynamics would be more accurate, ie: the shape of the ball, but even if just one vertex of the ball is intercepted at any given velocity, that one velocity should be enough to make the sheet react.

    However I suppose the impact dynamics could be compared to a meteorite hitting a planet, the size matters, a small rock would wipe out a village, a 10km asteroid would mean the end of earth. So one vertex should ideally have very little impact compared to all the vertices of the ball... but considering this is a computer simulation, and they already know beforehand that chances are high for missing vertices like you say, I would assume they would be clever enough to estimate the 'force' of the impact by checking out the size and therefore momentum of the ball that that one intercepted vertex belongs to... and thereby roughly estimating what the actual impact would be like without having to calculate for the rest of the ball.

    But I am guessing that the point of impact sets of more accurate series of calculations, or at least, I presume that would be way more efficient.

    Ideally Poser will focus on improvements to the motion side of things which will make a lot of people happy because even if you like conforming clothes have a constantly running cloth fitting will remove the issue with poke through. The cloth room was added in Poser 5 and at the time it would take hours to run. Now it can be in seconds (for the same scene) because the computers have advanced that much in speed. Now if Poser would go back an increase the capabilities of the existing rooms to add additional refinement to the existing tools that would be a killer upgrade.

    Although they look awesome, I'm not a big fan of simulations because they take ages to plan and get right, and especially with all these caveats to consider, it just becomes laborious and time-consuming. But if they improve the efficiency, accessibility and intra-compatibility of said simulations within Poser, then I would be more likely to work more with sims. I see a lot of potential, not only for animations but also for making morphs. So yeah, its definitely something they should focus on (rather than making figures).



  • Can you share the soft dynamic settings you used on the boobies please?



  • @tastiger something along the lines of this:

    Coll Marg: 0.04
    Fric: 0.1
    Bounce: 1
    Lin Damp: 0.004
    Mass: 1
    Int Pres: 0.07
    Lin Stif: 0.8

    Gravity: -0.1

    Self-Constraint value around the boobies was about 0.23.

    The Internal pressure is the most important one here. However, PE Erogirl had a lot of polygons in her boobies and V4/Genesis will have way less compared. Internal Pressure would have to be lower I think. I'm even beginning to wonder if there's any point in having Internal Pressure because I had it set to zero in many other sims since and I cannot tell if there's any real value to it (I think the default setting isn't bad to begin with, depending on the mesh). Funny thing I discovered is that if I scale the scene to 1000% the soft body dynamics becomes easier to work with, and the results are more accurate too! Maybe I just had to turn the mass way down.

    In any case please watch @nerd3d 's video here:

    that was very helpful to me,



  • @erogenesis said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    Funny thing I discovered is that if I scale the scene to 1000% the soft body dynamics becomes easier to work with, and the results are more accurate too!

    Interesting... I remember back in Poser 5, when Firefly had just been introduced, someone demonstrated that scaling the scene up made a raytraced render that used refraction less artifact-y. I suspect this is because third-party technology that's been bought in is often optimised to suit the usual mesh size in other applications. Poser's meshes are renowned for being tiny in comparison.



  • @englishbob lol that was the first thing I thought of too, and I tried it too. My results showed that the blotchy artifacts in a purely IDL lit scene in Firefly became smaller and therefore more visible, so not real improvement there.



  • First of all - this is AMAZING Ero! Very nicely done.

    However, how the hell did you figure all that out? I don't understand Poser enough to even fathom how you knew to use the 'point at' modifiers, or baking transforms. That seems to be the biggest hurdle for me (or any new person I'm sure), learning the software so you can use it to its full potential.

    Heck I still don't understand how to use the Superfly nodes to get the desired effects - some of you can make these extremely complicated nodes that look like rocket science to me.

    Again, amazing work my friend. I would love to be able to do what you have done. Would love to see more.



  • @Lotharen haha thanks so much Loth!

    How did I figure all that out? I guess farting around with Poser long enough will get you there haha. I guess my background with other apps has also given me the instinct to dig further into apps like Poser, and I've had a few math/programming classes in university. To me its all just maths and geometry. Anything can be told to point at, move along with, copy locations, and if you know things like momentum and inertia and gravity and projectile maths, then you'll see that Poser has actually been designed pretty nicely, except now they must also connect it to the usefulness part... ie: that it works logically, and that it also works with other parts of Poser... ahem!

    That said, not even I understand all of Poser as I am often corrected by some of the other clever people on this website. So honestly, the 'farting around' thing is probably my best explanation. Only by experimenting will you be able to find out what's possible. I rarely do tutorials as I just don't have the patience... only if I have a specific question will I bother with them. Never start a new scene without first having broken Poser a few times.



  • @erogenesis Impressive animation work erogenesis. Didn't understand one half of a third of the tricks listed in the making of this loop, but it's good to know the possibilities are there. But if you have some time, please share some tips on how you turned a hair model into a dynamic cloth sim. Thanks!



  • @krios said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    @erogenesis Impressive animation work erogenesis. Didn't understand one half of a third of the tricks listed in the making of this loop, but it's good to know the possibilities are there. But if you have some time, please share some tips on how you turned a hair model into a dynamic cloth sim. Thanks!

    hey, sorry for responding so late!

    Its a hit or miss thing with cloth room and conformed hair figures sometimes. Simulating XTina's hair (blonde on the left) was not hard since it had a dedicated FBM for Xtina. I just constrained the top and let Cloth Room do the rest.

    Lali's hair (brunette in the middle) was a fail and that's why its pulled back. It started out ok, setting the constraints was also not easy for Lali's Hair because some hair figures have hair starting at the bottom of the skull, and those strands just fall away if you don't catch them. There is a trick to get them, and that is to let the fall away with a drape, stop before they disappear, and then select the vertices to constrain. Then you can reset the simulation and start again. But unfortunately there were other issues. It has more than one morph dialed in (other than the conforming FBM) and then the cloth room gets confused and results a bogus dynamic shape, probably trying to counter (or just flat out ignoring) the morphs dialed in. In any case I couldn't undo the bogus shape by simply reversing the other morphs, and then there's also load order to consider. Then I tried to spawn a prop out of Lali's hair but 1) Poser doesn't consider rotations/scaling with that, and 2) reparenting that prop to maintain its location is near impossible for some reason (even after activating-resetting all the dials, which is sometimes necessary to prepare Poser for a re-parenting job, even that didn't help). In short I was fiddling with her hair for hours, if I spent some more on it I might have managed, but I gave up because I wanted to do other things.

    In short, just play around until you either have what you want, or until you're within inches of killing yourself (a good time to stop) ;) There's plenty of little things that need improving in Poser that can make a huge difference, and in the previous paragraph alone there's a lot of information for the @Poser-Team to think about lol.



  • @erogenesis said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    [...] setting the constraints was also not easy for Lali's Hair because some hair figures have hair starting at the bottom of the skull, and those strands just fall away if you don't catch them. There is a trick to get them, and that is to let the fall away with a drape, stop before they disappear, and then select the vertices to constrain. Then you can reset the simulation and start again.

    Here's how I do it, assuming the hair is made by the usual method of multiple long strips. I open the hair in UVMapper, and assign a new material to the top row of facets on each strip. They're much easier to select when viewed in UV map format. Then go through the usual steps of making a duplicate hair prop / figure that calls the modified geometry.

    Of course this new material won't be affected by the hair material settings, but it's easy enough to copy them across. You can even do it during the cr2 / hr2 editing process if you're familiar with the innards of library files.

    In the cloth room, when selecting the constrained vertices, use the select by material option.

    There will still be plenty of hit-or-miss steps in the process, but now at least your figure won't be tearing their hair out: only you. :)



  • Thank you for the pointers Ero & englishbob, most of it flew over my noob head.
    Will just come back and bug you guys when the time comes to try a dynamic hair.



  • @englishbob said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    @erogenesis said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    [...] setting the constraints was also not easy for Lali's Hair because some hair figures have hair starting at the bottom of the skull, and those strands just fall away if you don't catch them. There is a trick to get them, and that is to let the fall away with a drape, stop before they disappear, and then select the vertices to constrain. Then you can reset the simulation and start again.

    Here's how I do it, assuming the hair is made by the usual method of multiple long strips. I open the hair in UVMapper, and assign a new material to the top row of facets on each strip. They're much easier to select when viewed in UV map format. Then go through the usual steps of making a duplicate hair prop / figure that calls the modified geometry.

    Of course this new material won't be affected by the hair material settings, but it's easy enough to copy them across. You can even do it during the cr2 / hr2 editing process if you're familiar with the innards of library files.

    In the cloth room, when selecting the constrained vertices, use the select by material option.

    There will still be plenty of hit-or-miss steps in the process, but now at least your figure won't be tearing their hair out: only you. :)

    lol!

    But hey that is a clever way of doing things! Its much neater and more controlled, although I did have to add more of the crown because otherwise all I would see was her parting sticking out the top like some kind of wannabe mohawk, wlike the rest stuck to her like glue (a falloff zone might be nice, WM for clothroom regions perhaps?). But I retried the whole idea with your suggestion (in a more controlled environment, no morphs etc) and it worked much better! I'm now going to export all my girls' hair as separate OBJ props. I still find it silly that I cannot use spawn prop because Poser doesn't consider scaling a significant shape change to include in the resulting prop. Options @Poser-Team, options! Give us options.

    ***=NSFW content***

    click to show



  • @erogenesis said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    [...] I retried the whole idea with your suggestion (in a more controlled environment, no morphs etc) and it worked much better!

    Cool, happy to help!

    @krios said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    Will just come back and bug you guys when the time comes to try a dynamic hair.

    Bug away, by all means. Just bear in mind that there are no guarantees that a particular hair model will work as desired.



  • @erogenesis whenever I find a hair item that uses scaling as part of its fits for a different character, I create a magnet with the base centred on the hair prop's origin, and set the magnet zone's falloff to constant (I have a library pose which applies that, so I don't have to muck about with the inaccuracies of the falloff-zone editor, which originally used to helpfully limit the spline graph to between zero and one, so you could just delete the intermediate splines and drag the endpoints to the top), then spawn the magnet scaling as a morph, which Poser can't ignore when saving to the library.

    Yet another reason why I wrote my own library save and load routines. Whoever heard of leaving out important transformation channels (general and axial scales) when saving a pose?



  • @anomalaus said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    @erogenesis whenever I find a hair item that uses scaling as part of its fits for a different character, I create a magnet with the base centred on the hair prop's origin, and set the magnet zone's falloff to constant...

    I have a different way: bug the Poser Team until they fix it :D lol

    @anomalaus said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    Yet another reason why I wrote my own library save and load routines. Whoever heard of leaving out important transformation channels (general and axial scales) when saving a pose?

    Don't get me started on saving Poses. Ugh! Thank Jojo for @Netherworks Poserwriter!



  • @anomalaus said in All of the best features of Poser in one Animation - NSFW:

    @erogenesis whenever I find a hair item that uses scaling as part of its fits for a different character, I create a magnet with the base centred on the hair prop's origin, and set the magnet zone's falloff to constant

    I do something similar, but I find myself often just reworking figure hair, re-rigging if necessary, since "hair fits" are all-too-often a matter of quick-fixing what should be "re-rigged" or morphed by hand. I save the finished morph or save the re-rigged object and never go back to the base figure/object.

    PS - Your custom poses for stuff like this would be cool to see!