The future of Poser is the Fitting Room



  • @vilters

    There is a way around it, kinda sorta.

    You can use the Fitting Room to create the fit. But then, INSTEAD of pressing the "Create Figure" button in the Fitting Room, press the "Spawn Prop" button.

    When you return to the Pose Room, you will have a refitted OBJ file that has NO GROUPS, and which will have the same vertex count and vertex order as the original OBJ file. Export this prop from Poser, and add the groups externally. Then import that new regrouped OBJ into Poser and use the Setup Room or Fitting Room to rig the CR2 as normal.

    BUT ... when you rig this time, DO NOT choose Auto Group. Only copy skeleton and weights to the new OBJ file. Save to the Library. Edit the CR2 that Poser creates to use your good welded OBJ.

    Then load that edited CR2 into Poser and copy the morphs over.

    Yeah it's a pain, but it works.

    (EDIT: I might have spoken too soon. Vertex order might be hosed. Same vertex count, vertex order might be off. DANG!)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey
    Yes Dee, that's what I have been doing since filing report 31615 (and related) starting some years ago.
    I even had a complete tutorial about that procedure at RDNA.

    Use the "fit" part, to fit an obj to a figure. (example pants)

    Then you can export a "fitted" still groupless obj from Poser.

    Then you could add the vertex groups, pockets, belts, buttons and all the rest to that "fitted obj".

    Then chase this upgraded obj through the fitting room, to only get the rig and save.
    Delete the Poser saved obj file, (as in my video4 in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on my YouTube channel.)

    Then edit that cr2 to the good obj file.

    Lots of work and a good workaround the Poser bugs.



  • @vilters said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @Deecey
    Yes Dee, that's what I have been doing since filing report 31615 (and related) starting some years ago.
    I even had a complete tutorial about that procedure at RDNA.

    Use the "fit" part, to fit an obj to a figure. (example pants)

    Then you can export a "fitted" still groupless obj from Poser.

    Then you could add the vertex groups, pockets, belts, buttons and all the rest to that "fitted obj".

    Then chase this upgraded obj through the fitting room, to only get the rig and save.
    Delete the Poser saved obj file, (as in my video4 in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on my YouTube channel.)

    Then edit that cr2 to the good obj file.

    Lots of work and a good workaround the Poser bugs.

    I have to jump through 2 or 3 programs to recover vertex order. I have a method down but it's not something that will be easily accessible to the average user because it involves 2 or 3 programs that most don't have, unfortunately. But yeah, this vertex count thing is the biggest challenge with Poser content dev, and I will be a very happy camper if it is addressed in some way.



  • I think there could be a way out of this for Poser, but it might involve some serious alterations to Poser's internal infrastructure. I have changed the base shape of figures millions of times using the base mesh, inside of Poser! I've also changed the grouping in the base mesh a few times and still alternative shapes of that same mesh will still work as morphs, also inside of Poser. Groupings in a mesh can be anything, and the shape too, as long as the vertex order is not changed. All these issues come in when Poser starts chopping the mesh up into pieces and doubling vertices at the border. This is why I propose that Poser stats working with the base mesh as is, and the PMD addresses only the base mesh. All morphs become pre-transform by default. The rig start working on the mesh after all that, and if it needs to split it up, sure whatever, but that won't work either because if you want to make a morph, you'd have to go back to the base shape, and that won't work for JCMs.



  • @erogenesis said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    I think there could be a way out of this for Poser, but it might involve some serious alterations to Poser's internal infrastructure. I have changed the base shape of figures millions of times using the base mesh. I've also changed the grouping in the base mesh a few times and still alternative shapes of that same mesh will still work as morphs. Groupings in a mesh can be anything, and the shape too, as long as the vertex order is not changed. All these issues come in when Poser starts chopping the mesh up into pieces and doubling vertices at the border. This is why I propose that Poser stats working with the base mesh as is, and the PMD addresses only the base mesh. All morphs become pre-transform by default. The rig start working on the mesh after all that, and if it needs to split it up, sure whatever, but that won't work either because if you want to make a morph, you'd have to go back to the base shape, and that won't work for JCMs.

    Probably true, and I agree. The key will be how to implement it while maintaining compatibility with legacy content. As I've said before I'm not a programmer but I suspect if that were an easy fix it would have been done long ago.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey
    It is easy => Step by step:

    Build or convert a new or existing clothing obj to single vertex group prop. (hip)

    Open fitting room, load prop and load figure.

    Do the "fit". => ONLY the fit. use the "fit" as some sort of controllable schrinkwrap.
    Export as a fitted obj prop.

    RESULT => A single group clothing prop that "fits" over your figure.

    Load that prop in Blender.
    Add pockets, add belt, and gunholster or whatever you desire. Don't worry about vertex order. Just add what you need.
    Now cut up your prop into vertex groups. (Use colored mat zones to do so, then transfer them to vertex groups with polygons selection.)

    Now your pants are finished and vertex grouped. => Save as Pants-GOLD.obj

    Open Poser, and load Pants-Gold and your figure and do the fitting room session.
    Select the bones to transfer, DO NOT DO A FITTING , it is not required any more, do NOT use autogroup, and save out your pants as : Pants-Finished.

    Poser will save a Pants-Finished cr2 and a Pants-Finished obj file.

    DELETE the Pants-Finished obj file that Poser just saved for you=> It is unwelded.
    RENAME Pants-GOLD.obj to Pants-Finished.obj.

    load and conform to your figure. DONE ! ! ! ! ! !



  • @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Probably true, and I agree. The key will be how to implement it while maintaining compatibility with legacy content. As I've said before I'm not a programmer but I suspect if that were an easy fix it would have been done long ago.

    Yeah keeping legacy content working, particularly the unwelded stuff will be a challenge and that will require some serious interpretation algorithms.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis

    Simple : Follow the instruction set I just posted above.

    OK, one of these days , I"ll make a video tutorial. i have been doing this for years.



  • @vilters
    Yes but I am talking about fixing Poser so that these external fixes are no longer required. That, I suspect, is not a straightforward fix (but again, I am not a programmer, I don't know what would be involved). But I'll be glad to document it when it's fixed

    And I'll even bring the beer to the party. LMAO



  • @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    But I'll be glad to document it when it's fixed LMAO

    And we all know you can! :D


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey

    Well, poser uses that internal "rewelding" of vertx groups at import thing. I think it comes originally from MAX some 20-25 years ago.
    That is what I call old tech, but Poser is build around that.

    Correcting that weld, unweld, and reweld code in Poser would take about a year.
    Both confirmed at the time by Steve and Charles and Larry, because that "system" is inside the core of the code. All else is build around it.

    Example : Yes, you can grow hair directly on the head or skin of a figure. But then what does Poser do when you save the figure/hair combination?
    Right, it cuts it up into vertex groups, breaking most of the rest with it. See how deep this goes?



  • @vilters said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @Deecey

    Well, poser uses that internal "rewelding" of vertx groups at import thing. I think it comes originally from MAX some 20-25 years ago.
    That is what I call old tech, but Poser is build around that.

    Correcting that weld, unweld, and reweld code in Poser would take about a year.
    Both confirmed at the time by Steve and Charles and Larry, because that "system" is inside the core of the code. All else is build around it.

    Example : Yes, you can grow hair directly on the head or skin of a figure. But then what does Poser do when you save the figure/hair combination?
    Right, it cuts it up into vertex groups, breaking most of the rest with it. See how deep this goes?

    Yes exactly. A very hairy walk through the code will be necessary (no pun intended LOL). But so, so, so needed.

    Like I said I'll bring the beer to the party when it's fixed. 8-D



  • @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @vilters said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Correcting that weld, unweld, and reweld code in Poser would take about a year.
    Both confirmed at the time by Steve and Charles and Larry, because that "system" is inside the core of the code. All else is build around it.

    Yes exactly. A very hairy walk through the code will be necessary (no pun intended LOL). But so, so, so needed.

    Indeed I won't be jealous of those poor buggers having to redo that code, but yes its needed. The cutting of the mesh causes way too many issues.

    @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Like I said I'll bring the beer to the party when it's fixed. 8-D

    I will be there!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Don't forget Lyrra made Fitroom Helpers, basically magnets fit V4 clothing on another figure.

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dawn-fitroom-helpers/100163/

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/pauline-fitroom-kit/112531/

    Maybe an idea to ask her to make something similar for PE.



  • @Biscuits said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Don't forget Lyrra made Fitroom Helpers, basically magnets fit V4 clothing on another figure.

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dawn-fitroom-helpers/100163/

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/pauline-fitroom-kit/112531/

    Maybe an idea to ask her to make something similar for PE.

    that's cool <3

    but don't worry, the hires PE mannequins will be killer! The one I showed there was just a demo, and I've learned quite a bit since my experiments from mesh4.5.



  • @mcb1129 said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @erogenesis Hi there. I'm new to Poser and this forum, so sorry if I don't know all the news and vendors. Who is making these figures? Where will I be able to get them?

    @AmbientShade is making Venus and Orion, not sure where he wants to sell them (ask him for a link, I'm not sure if I can post it here). Ali is making Bella and the beta version is already available here. He'll probably sell it from that site too. I am making Project E, I'll probably sell it from CGbytes and Renderosity.



  • I actually think that the fitting room and the morph tool/fitting brushes work great as they are. These were two of the most extraordinary enhancements I've seen in commercial products in many years. So easy and practical! Gotta love the morph transfer and change to conforming functions.

    Compare that to say soft body; I had such high expectations for soft body, but it turned out to be useless to me. After lots and lots of trying I just gave up on that.

    Anyway, if someone weaponizes the fitting room I wouldn't be against; it would be like transforming a chocolate cake into a 10-story wedding cake, yummy!



  • @fbs7 I agree! Poser made some amazing leaps forward with Chuck (NERD3D) at the helm. He really gave developers a voice.

    I sure wish he would drop in somewhere and say Hi!



  • @fbs7 said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Anyway, if someone weaponizes the fitting room I wouldn't be against; it would be like transforming a chocolate cake into a 10-story wedding cake, yummy!

    It would need functions to grade size 8 dresses to size 14. ;-)



  • @fbs7 said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    I actually think that the fitting room and the morph tool/fitting brushes work great as they are. These were two of the most extraordinary enhancements I've seen in commercial products in many years. So easy and practical! Gotta love the morph transfer and change to conforming functions.

    Compare that to say soft body; I had such high expectations for soft body, but it turned out to be useless to me. After lots and lots of trying I just gave up on that.

    Anyway, if someone weaponizes the fitting room I wouldn't be against; it would be like transforming a chocolate cake into a 10-story wedding cake, yummy!

    As an end-user, it is great, especially once you throw in the fit room magnets that Lyrra makes. I move content from V4/M4 to Dawn/Dusk and Pauline/Paul - 30 second operation. I just wish she made more of them; I'd love to have them for all of the SM figures.

    As far as I am concerned, the fitting room makes dedicated clothing a nice to have vs. have to have. I'll buy dedicated clothing, if it is something I don't already have, if I already have something, I'll have to think about it.