The future of Poser is the Fitting Room


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey
    It is easy => Step by step:

    Build or convert a new or existing clothing obj to single vertex group prop. (hip)

    Open fitting room, load prop and load figure.

    Do the "fit". => ONLY the fit. use the "fit" as some sort of controllable schrinkwrap.
    Export as a fitted obj prop.

    RESULT => A single group clothing prop that "fits" over your figure.

    Load that prop in Blender.
    Add pockets, add belt, and gunholster or whatever you desire. Don't worry about vertex order. Just add what you need.
    Now cut up your prop into vertex groups. (Use colored mat zones to do so, then transfer them to vertex groups with polygons selection.)

    Now your pants are finished and vertex grouped. => Save as Pants-GOLD.obj

    Open Poser, and load Pants-Gold and your figure and do the fitting room session.
    Select the bones to transfer, DO NOT DO A FITTING , it is not required any more, do NOT use autogroup, and save out your pants as : Pants-Finished.

    Poser will save a Pants-Finished cr2 and a Pants-Finished obj file.

    DELETE the Pants-Finished obj file that Poser just saved for you=> It is unwelded.
    RENAME Pants-GOLD.obj to Pants-Finished.obj.

    load and conform to your figure. DONE ! ! ! ! ! !



  • @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Probably true, and I agree. The key will be how to implement it while maintaining compatibility with legacy content. As I've said before I'm not a programmer but I suspect if that were an easy fix it would have been done long ago.

    Yeah keeping legacy content working, particularly the unwelded stuff will be a challenge and that will require some serious interpretation algorithms.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis

    Simple : Follow the instruction set I just posted above.

    OK, one of these days , I"ll make a video tutorial. i have been doing this for years.



  • @vilters
    Yes but I am talking about fixing Poser so that these external fixes are no longer required. That, I suspect, is not a straightforward fix (but again, I am not a programmer, I don't know what would be involved). But I'll be glad to document it when it's fixed

    And I'll even bring the beer to the party. LMAO



  • @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    But I'll be glad to document it when it's fixed LMAO

    And we all know you can! :D


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey

    Well, poser uses that internal "rewelding" of vertx groups at import thing. I think it comes originally from MAX some 20-25 years ago.
    That is what I call old tech, but Poser is build around that.

    Correcting that weld, unweld, and reweld code in Poser would take about a year.
    Both confirmed at the time by Steve and Charles and Larry, because that "system" is inside the core of the code. All else is build around it.

    Example : Yes, you can grow hair directly on the head or skin of a figure. But then what does Poser do when you save the figure/hair combination?
    Right, it cuts it up into vertex groups, breaking most of the rest with it. See how deep this goes?



  • @vilters said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @Deecey

    Well, poser uses that internal "rewelding" of vertx groups at import thing. I think it comes originally from MAX some 20-25 years ago.
    That is what I call old tech, but Poser is build around that.

    Correcting that weld, unweld, and reweld code in Poser would take about a year.
    Both confirmed at the time by Steve and Charles and Larry, because that "system" is inside the core of the code. All else is build around it.

    Example : Yes, you can grow hair directly on the head or skin of a figure. But then what does Poser do when you save the figure/hair combination?
    Right, it cuts it up into vertex groups, breaking most of the rest with it. See how deep this goes?

    Yes exactly. A very hairy walk through the code will be necessary (no pun intended LOL). But so, so, so needed.

    Like I said I'll bring the beer to the party when it's fixed. 8-D



  • @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @vilters said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Correcting that weld, unweld, and reweld code in Poser would take about a year.
    Both confirmed at the time by Steve and Charles and Larry, because that "system" is inside the core of the code. All else is build around it.

    Yes exactly. A very hairy walk through the code will be necessary (no pun intended LOL). But so, so, so needed.

    Indeed I won't be jealous of those poor buggers having to redo that code, but yes its needed. The cutting of the mesh causes way too many issues.

    @Deecey said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Like I said I'll bring the beer to the party when it's fixed. 8-D

    I will be there!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Don't forget Lyrra made Fitroom Helpers, basically magnets fit V4 clothing on another figure.

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dawn-fitroom-helpers/100163/

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/pauline-fitroom-kit/112531/

    Maybe an idea to ask her to make something similar for PE.



  • @Biscuits said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Don't forget Lyrra made Fitroom Helpers, basically magnets fit V4 clothing on another figure.

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dawn-fitroom-helpers/100163/

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/pauline-fitroom-kit/112531/

    Maybe an idea to ask her to make something similar for PE.

    that's cool <3

    but don't worry, the hires PE mannequins will be killer! The one I showed there was just a demo, and I've learned quite a bit since my experiments from mesh4.5.



  • @mcb1129 said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    @erogenesis Hi there. I'm new to Poser and this forum, so sorry if I don't know all the news and vendors. Who is making these figures? Where will I be able to get them?

    @AmbientShade is making Venus and Orion, not sure where he wants to sell them (ask him for a link, I'm not sure if I can post it here). Ali is making Bella and the beta version is already available here. He'll probably sell it from that site too. I am making Project E, I'll probably sell it from CGbytes and Renderosity.



  • I actually think that the fitting room and the morph tool/fitting brushes work great as they are. These were two of the most extraordinary enhancements I've seen in commercial products in many years. So easy and practical! Gotta love the morph transfer and change to conforming functions.

    Compare that to say soft body; I had such high expectations for soft body, but it turned out to be useless to me. After lots and lots of trying I just gave up on that.

    Anyway, if someone weaponizes the fitting room I wouldn't be against; it would be like transforming a chocolate cake into a 10-story wedding cake, yummy!



  • @fbs7 I agree! Poser made some amazing leaps forward with Chuck (NERD3D) at the helm. He really gave developers a voice.

    I sure wish he would drop in somewhere and say Hi!



  • @fbs7 said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Anyway, if someone weaponizes the fitting room I wouldn't be against; it would be like transforming a chocolate cake into a 10-story wedding cake, yummy!

    It would need functions to grade size 8 dresses to size 14. ;-)



  • @fbs7 said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    I actually think that the fitting room and the morph tool/fitting brushes work great as they are. These were two of the most extraordinary enhancements I've seen in commercial products in many years. So easy and practical! Gotta love the morph transfer and change to conforming functions.

    Compare that to say soft body; I had such high expectations for soft body, but it turned out to be useless to me. After lots and lots of trying I just gave up on that.

    Anyway, if someone weaponizes the fitting room I wouldn't be against; it would be like transforming a chocolate cake into a 10-story wedding cake, yummy!

    As an end-user, it is great, especially once you throw in the fit room magnets that Lyrra makes. I move content from V4/M4 to Dawn/Dusk and Pauline/Paul - 30 second operation. I just wish she made more of them; I'd love to have them for all of the SM figures.

    As far as I am concerned, the fitting room makes dedicated clothing a nice to have vs. have to have. I'll buy dedicated clothing, if it is something I don't already have, if I already have something, I'll have to think about it.



  • I strongly support @erogenesis idea to weaponize the fitting room. One suggestion I submitted through the Twitter-like suggestion system was to quit treating copy morphs from as only for content creators and put the capability in base Poser 12. SM should market the fact that Poser has many more figures available than DS, and you can clothe them all well enough for rendering purposes in the fitting room. You can rig DAZ Genesis 3 and 8 clothing for Poser in the fitting room. But for the clothes to work with anything other than your base Venus, Orion, PE, Bella, Massie, Pauline, Paul, etc, you have to be able to copy morphs from the figure. Converting to a morphed figure with centers matched to morphs doesn't work well. An average user needs that power. That's a Hellfire up the competition's wazoo!



  • @RobZhena said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    I strongly support @erogenesis idea to weaponize the fitting room. One suggestion I submitted through the Twitter-like suggestion system was to quit treating copy morphs from as only for content creators and put the capability in base Poser 12. SM should market the fact that Poser has many more figures available than DS, and you can clothe them all well enough for rendering purposes in the fitting room. You can rig DAZ Genesis 3 and 8 clothing for Poser in the fitting room. But for the clothes to work with anything other than your base Venus, Orion, PE, Bella, Massie, Pauline, Paul, etc, you have to be able to copy morphs from the figure. Converting to a morphed figure with centers matched to morphs doesn't work well. An average user needs that power. That's a Hellfire up the competition's wazoo!

    Definitely agree about the copy morphs from command. It is even more powerful after you use the Dials to Single Morph command.

    That is how I put my characters together - Load base mesh (will ALL morphs); load character; fiddle about with dials; Dials to Single Morph; load clothing; Copy Morphs From; then either reduce the polys, or merge figure & clothing into 1 mesh; delete unused morphs; reload expressions.

    End result - lightweight, clothed figure ready to go to work.



  • Just my two coppers:

    I see the "Fitting Room" as a quick and easy, "do art", sort of solution for fitting formerly incompatible clothing. At least, up to a point. It works, after a fashion, and can yield decent results up to a point, depending upon how complex the objects are.

    But, I would never expect that sort of function to yield perfect or even "pro-quality" results.

    For pro-results, either an entirely new system has to be devised, and even that wouldn't be perfect, or one needs to do things by hand. That being said, I am delighted with Poser's Morph tool, as it brings a heck of a lot of power to bear on tweaking clothes for morphs and deforms. (I do wish some features would be added to that and would like the ability to tweak some functions a bit, but it's still pretty darn great.)



  • @morkonan said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:

    Just my two coppers:

    I see the "Fitting Room" as a quick and easy, "do art", sort of solution for fitting formerly incompatible clothing. At least, up to a point. It works, after a fashion, and can yield decent results up to a point, depending upon how complex the objects are.

    But, I would never expect that sort of function to yield perfect or even "pro-quality" results.

    For pro-results, either an entirely new system has to be devised, and even that wouldn't be perfect, or one needs to do things by hand. That being said, I am delighted with Poser's Morph tool, as it brings a heck of a lot of power to bear on tweaking clothes for morphs and deforms. (I do wish some features would be added to that and would like the ability to tweak some functions a bit, but it's still pretty darn great.)

    I don't think Erogenesis isn't talking about it being perfect - if that happened, the end user wouldn't need clothing vendors anymore.

    As I read it - it is how can SM get the Fitting room to handle more of the conversion process, to make it easier for the vendors.



  • @ssgbryan said in The future of Poser is the Fitting Room:
    ..

    As I read it - it is how can SM get the Fitting room to handle more of the conversion process, to make it easier for the vendors.

    Gotcha.

    I suppose that would be nice. But, there are some third-party tools out there that are perfect for many things a vendor would want in regards to conversion capability. I like Autogroup Editor, helps immensely with grouping and preserves the UV (is somewhat difficult to fine tune individual polys in groups by hand,though), Quick Conform, for basic quick rigging transfers and editing out bones (tweaking necessary, though, using the Joint Editor), and Morcloth, for morph transfers. (Though, it takes a bit of fine-tuning, but it yields serviceable results that can be manually tweaked).

    If SM could make the Fitting Room more powerful and could exceed the results already available using third-party apps, without significantly increasing their costs or ours, I'm all for adding super-powers to the Fitting Room! :)