Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?



  • Last time I looked at iClone (maybe 2-3 years ago) I thought it was too expensive (like $700 or the like), but now I see iClone 7 for $199, including something they call Character Creator. This Character Creator thingie looks very impressive - it looks like you can create clothes with it. But I guess I'd need the $299 version to do things like import an OBJ file, I think.

    So, anyone has experience with both Poser and iClone 7? I'm particularly curious on how animation and clothes in Poser compares to animation in iClone.



  • @fbs7 I know this is a wet-blanket answer, which may not apply to your case, and for which I apologise, but iClone is not available for the Mac platform, (unless you're prepared to run it under a virtual Windows emulator (which won't be a fair performance comparison). Other than that, I have nothing negative to say about iClone. [Stamps off harrumphing enviously]



  • I have version 6 of 3Dxchange Pipeline and Iclone pro. I think the version 7 has some really cool features and would be a great upgrade but I did not upgrade to the new version because I am not please with Reallusion as a company. I finally purchased the software when they announced on the forums that they were working on am curve editor for version 6. But It never came and now is a plugin for version 7 that will cost more money or purchase Pipeline to have the functionality. So I will wait and not buy from them until the features are complete. Maybe I will check them out in version 8.

    Here are things to consider.

    Iclone is meant to be a closed system and has limited export and import capabilities on its own. You will need 3Dxchange for more import and export options. You will need the Pipeline version if you want to export character animation to another application like Poser, Maya, or Blender to fine tune the animations or use another renderer.

    Reallusion is also all about the Addon like poser/daz content. If you like Character Creator well you are most like going have to buy the CC Essential Complete Bundle which has morphs and clothing.

    There is also a difference in version of content. There is iclone only or export.

    I actually wish Poser had a 3Dexchange like program where you could import an FBX and convert it to Poser standard file to use animations you already have or convert animations to fit poser figures.

    I hope this helps. I really do like the software but it is more expensive to get the standard amount of functions you are used to in poser.

    Oh I forgot. Cloth physics simulation is pretty easy in Clone and fast since it uses your gpu. Real-time rendering is rather cool to see.



  • Oh, thanks both answers.

    So, I really like working in one program only; I don't have a pipeline of thingies to export animations to; I just need it to export/import OBJ (or some other simple file format) so that I can make props in SketchUp or Blender. But, in order to get that simple mesh import/export I understand I'll have to spit the $100 more for 3Dxchange, right?

    Apart from that, it really seems to have all I need, although it has only a few toons, it looks like - I think it comes with 7, and then you have to buy any extras. At that the helluva amount of toons for Poser is a really a plus.

    Now, from the videos I saw it does seem to have an amazing feature to animate expressions - you just select the expression and control it with the mouse, and then start your animation in realtime, and then you move the mouse around to add the expressions as an animation block. What an incredible feature!! Meanwhile I spend so much time in Poser (and Blender for the matter) adding the eye blinks one by one, then adding the phonemes one by one, always setting then resetting, and then I end with 700 keyframes and I get lost trying to figure out where is what. As none of these apps (Poser, Blender or DAZ) have a text-to-animation feature, it's just hell on earth to add speech to any animation.

    So I'm flabbergasted with this facial animation thingie in iClone. It just seems to be light-years ahead of competition, even if I never actually used it.

    Did anyone try it?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fbs7 said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    none of these apps (Poser, Blender or DAZ) have a text-to-animation feature,

    You're confusing me. Please address "Talk Designer" in particular because as far as I can tell you don't know it exists.



  • I thought Talk Designer needed a voice file?



  • Correct, it requires a voice file (that is, a sound file). I never understood why the complicated part was done (sound to animation), while the easy part was not (text to animation).



  • Risking being repetitive (and I apologize for that), ever since the talk designer came as a separate add-on (forgot when, it might have been poser 6 or 7), it has forever been in no-go land for me, for the reason that is requires a sound file. That's an insurmountable difficulty for me, for the reason that I have horrible pronunciation (even my mom doesn't understand me), I don't have a mic or a sound editing software, I have no ability whatsoever to do any voice overs, my movies are always without sound (I use balloons), I wouldn't be able to retime the animation (as the sound file gets out of sync), I'm not really sure it supports 12 fps, it's too realistic, and in the sample animations that I've seen the thing just puts too many phonemes while i prefer to try to imitate an Anime-style animation with as few phonemes as possible.

    So although I had great curiosity with Talk Designer when launched, it's probably the one area in the whole application that I never touched.

    Oh, by the way, once I even purchased a text-to-speech thingie just to build the sound file for that guy, but I never really liked the result (too robotic, no intonation, etc..), so I stayed with my balloons.



  • Oh, I'm forgetting, another reason for me to no do voice-overs for my animations is that the neighbor lady would call the police for the strange sounds that would come from my home, hahaha


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fbs7 said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    once I even purchased a text-to-speech thingie just to build the sound file for that guy, but I never really liked the result (too robotic, no intonation, etc..)

    Then why would you want one from Smith Micro, king of poorly implemented hair room and cloth room?
    You can't possibly then think that SM could do it better as a built-in feature. I bet they probably did try a TTS module and found it truly unbearable compared to a real human recording.

    Even my iPhone stinks at reading text out loud and Apple is the best UX company in the world. You think SM could even come close? Hah!

    So while I'm sorry you hate to use your own voice I can't imagine that anything less than 99 out of 100 prefer live recordings and would cry like mad if Poser did TTS and I can't imagine you could actually use it if it existed.



  • @bagginsbill said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    @fbs7 said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    once I even purchased a text-to-speech thingie just to build the sound file for that guy, but I never really liked the result (too robotic, no intonation, etc..)

    Then why would you want one from Smith Micro, king of poorly implemented hair room and cloth room?
    You can't possibly then think that SM could do it better as a built-in feature. I bet they probably did try a TTS module and found it truly unbearable compared to a real human recording.

    Even my iPhone stinks at reading text out loud and Apple is the best UX company in the world. You think SM could even come close? Hah!

    So while I'm sorry you hate to use your own voice I can't imagine that anything less than 99 out of 100 prefer live recordings and would cry like mad if Poser did TTS and I can't imagine you could actually use it if it existed.

    I'm not saying to add a text-to-speech feature.

    I'm saying the Talk Designer requires a sound file, and that's no-go for me.

    I'd like to see a tool that you type the text as "Hello here I am", and the the thing generates the morphs for the phonemes "e l o o o . . . e c e ... a ... a m" in that sequence. Text to animation.

    That doesn't mean destroy Talk Designer. Just add a small tool (or python script) that does that rather simple task.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fbs7
    Talk designer uses the audio channel to synchronize the lips. Just add your own voice in talk designer so it can sync, add your own dialog text which you used in the audio and create the animation. Afterwards, replace the audio with something else of your own choosing.
    The supplemental text entry box in Talk designer does exactly what you want - it translates the text to the phonemes.
    I really would not know how else - besides audio - they could time the spoken language



  • @bagginsbill said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    @fbs7 said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    once I even purchased a text-to-speech thingie just to build the sound file for that guy, but I never really liked the result (too robotic, no intonation, etc..)

    Then why would you want one from Smith Micro, king of poorly implemented hair room and cloth room?

    Shenanigans! In what version was Poser's Hair Room ever... "implemented?" :)

    (I have not opened the Hair Room window, on purpose, in the last two, perhaps even three, iterations of Poser. There's no point.)



  • @wimvdb said in Any comparison between iClone and Poser Pro 11?:

    @fbs7
    Talk designer uses the audio channel to synchronize the lips. Just add your own voice in talk designer so it can sync, add your own dialog text which you used in the audio and create the animation. Afterwards, replace the audio with something else of your own choosing.
    The supplemental text entry box in Talk designer does exactly what you want - it translates the text to the phonemes.
    I really would not know how else - besides audio - they could time the spoken language

    These are good points. Here's what I think: in cell animation, at 12 fps or less, they have a simple set of rules based on a few standard poses that they repeat using some simple rules over and over again for a well controlled, very reproducible and quite cheap process.

    In that process the voice over happens in post-production, not before animation (although some animes like Akira did the opposite, at a really high cost for animation). It's all based in separating the text into manageable chunks, and incorporating them to the drawing process.

    So I wished I could find a cheap, inexpensive, reproducible process that used the same paradigms. So I thought uh, a text file might be a good starting point for that process. How to automate it?

    Once I saw what iClone does with Face Pupeteer (or whatever the name is for that thing) I'm now thinking, whoa! that's a whole new paradigm - you add expressions in realtime in multiple passes with the mouse! Brilliant idea! Alas, the chance of that ever being implemented in Poser is zero I think.



  • On MacOS, I use software called Narrator for Text-To-Speech functionality with OS installed InfoVox voices (commercial, though free trials are available). I previously used Kepstral's voices, but InfoVox seem better supported now. Both are available for Windows as well. The "human-sounding" nature of these voices is excellent. Much improved over past iterations, though at the expense of some flexibility. Back in the MacInTalk era, one could encode speech mannerisms and detailed pauses into the text to be spoken, which seems to be mostly ignored now, so it can be difficult to influence how a word is pronounced or whether the voice rises or falls in pitch at the ends without dedicated, dictionary entries. It certainly provides the means to develop speech animations without relying on one's own voice (which gets ridiculous in cross-(gender/age) character situations).

    OK. I can't upload either a text file or audio file, so here are some links to an example: Note the spelling variations in the screenshot of the text to affect pronunciation.

    0_1502774875124_Screen Shot 2017-08-15 at 3.20.52 pm.png

    Marinette (Amelie).aif

    Marinette (Amelie).mp4


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