Poser Features as Add-ons?



  • If Poser does this, I'm finished buying Poser.

    I've been down this nickle and dime approach before and the nickles and dimes they charge for addons cost a pretty penny.

    No. Thank. You.



  • My two cents on this, as a customer.

    I'm extremely suspicious of programs that have core features as "optional" paid packages. I always fear that what I buy will not be enough, and then I'll have to buy more stuff that ends up being more expensive than the original purchase.

    With one or two options of a packaged final product I'm more confident on what I buy, instead of a main package and then 10 paid options. A sales manager once told me that customers don't mind paying more, but they hate surprises.

    Consider SketchUp; I love that product, but I was extremely irritated when I found that the way to export OBJ was to buy the $499 option. It made no sense to me, as OBJ is an extremely simple file format. I almost stopped using it for that reason alone. What saved SketchUp for me is that I found a very practical Collada to FBX to OBJ/OBJ to FBX to Collada converter from Autocad, which works nicely for me.

    So, paid options if you wish, but no surprises from customers with the old bait-and-switch, as that backfires really fast I think.



  • @Glitterati3D You use Pro anyway, Traci. This wouldn't affect you at all. All I can say is I would have bought this. It took me some time to switch over to Poser Pro from regular Poser. I would have loved the option of being able to buy the features I wanted and to not bother with the ones i didn't want and still don't use. Obviously, this isn't the path for everyone.


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    We've been using various 3rd party add-ons for years already without much issue from clothing converters to dynamics to render engines and library managers. And until Pro 2014 included bullet physics, Poser physics was available since Poser 6 or 7 as a plug-in. I don't see the issue here. If game companies can do it and manage to still keep their engines free and working correctly with all the optional add-ons they offer, then a software package like Poser that's supposed to take itself seriously in the 3D world should be able to do the same.



  • @AmbientShade said in Poser Features as Add-ons?:

    We've been using various 3rd party add-ons for years already without much issue from clothing converters to dynamics to render engines and library managers. And until Pro 2014 included bullet physics, Poser physics was available since Poser 6 or 7 as a plug-in. I don't see the issue here. If game companies can do it and manage to still keep their engines free and working correctly with all the optional add-ons they offer, then a software package like Poser that's supposed to take itself seriously in the 3D world should be able to do the same.

    Game companies have a revenue stream based on games. They can make the engine free.

    Those 3rd party add-ons were not core features. They were niche items, that added value (I don't know if I have all of them, but I certainly have a lot of them).

    If you want to see how badly addons of core features can work, see the competition, especially when they went from version 3 to version 4. Add up all of those scripts that duplicate core Poser functionality, and you end up spending a lot more than the cost of Poser (and you still don't have a lot of core functionality of Poser, either).

    I do wish more vendors would take advantage of the add-on framework.


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    @ssgbryan
    So you want vendors to use the add-on framework but not the developers themselves?

    And what are you classifying as core features? Aside from LAMH and VWD - which would run about $80 combined if you don't get them on sale, what else is missing?

    Too many variables in that statement for me to agree or disagree with.

    Poser physics isn't a core feature so not having it in the software doesn't affect the core software. And like i said earlier, prior to 2014 it was a plug-in, which demonstrates that the plug-in method is an option without diminishing functionality of the core features. I don't know if it used the bullet engine or something else. Wardrobe Wizard was also a plugin for years. Did that cause problems with the core software for those who didn't have it?

    I'm not familiar with version 3 of "that other software" so I don't have it to compare or contrast with. I'm only familiar with the current version, which is the only one that matters since all the others are past iterations.



  • @ssgbryan Okay, let me address something, 1. We currently have three versions of Poser NOW. Regular Poser 11, Poser Pro 11, and Poser Pro Game Dev. Now, I am NOT saying or suggesting that ANY version be done away with. Only that Poser 11 be given add-ons like the Poser Pro versions. And Shane's right, we have had add-ons before. Some of your favorite python scripts are addo-ons to what Poser can already do. Wardrobe Wizard was an add-on. And Poser includes several utility scripts that turn off or delete lights. There are scripts that help you better manage your Poser library. Snarlygribbly's written several add-ons, that help you create snow in Poser, optimise settings to help you create better renders of figures. Still don't like add-ons?



  • @eclark1849 said in Poser Features as Add-ons?:

    ...Still don't like add-ons?

    Your point is very well taken.

    I think that "expansion packs", that give customers more functions aren't really viable. They want a fully-featured program right out of the box. I think that focused packages are "OK", especially introductory/lower-end versions, just so long as they have "upgrade" packs so they can basically buy the more robust version.

    Python is Poser's "add-on" pack, for regular users. It has been since it was added to Poser. That's the keyhole that most things considered to be "add-ons" work with. But, it also orphans more add-ons than <insert tyrant dictator here>. It's also probably the best "plug and play" feature Poser has in regards to add-ons.

    I have no idea how to fix the script-orphaning problem, since the idea is that languages have to progress, anyway, if they're to be adopted and used for contemporary purposes.

    Other "add-ons" have gained popularity, here and there, especially ones that are value-added. Morph programs, 3D modelers writing CR2s, cr2 editors, content organizers, rendering helpers, etc. These have all been very popular and are, for the most part, third-party outside applications. (Note: There are also some particular export/import scripts and such available for those using certain 3D apps.)

    The python potentates would have more substantial stuff to add, but I'd say that if we wanted to see more "expansion" opportunity for Poser and more functions/capability added, increasing Poser's end-cost value, then these are the people to weigh in. If they are made happy by having increased access to Poser's inner workings (or easier) and can script away to their hearts content, then we might see more powerful, more user-friendly, additions being made by third-parties.

    Python - Poser has it. Get the python guys weighing in on what they'd like to see and be able to use, publicize that, get it "known", and it may have some pretty good advantages for both SM and users.



  • @eclark1849 said in Poser Features as Add-ons?:

    @ssgbryan Okay, let me address something, 1. We currently have three versions of Poser NOW. Regular Poser 11, Poser Pro 11, and Poser Pro Game Dev. Now, I am NOT saying or suggesting that ANY version be done away with. Only that Poser 11 be given add-ons like the Poser Pro versions. And Shane's right, we have had add-ons before. Some of your favorite python scripts are addo-ons to what Poser can already do. Wardrobe Wizard was an add-on. And Poser includes several utility scripts that turn off or delete lights. There are scripts that help you better manage your Poser library. Snarlygribbly's written several add-ons, that help you create snow in Poser, optimise settings to help you create better renders of figures. Still don't like add-ons?

    You don't understand it from a programming standpoint. We have 2 code bases - 32-bit (which isn't long for this world) and 64-bit. The whole reason SM is running those sales for Poser Pro on a regular basis is to get people moving to 1 code base, which is easier to support from a programming standpoint. Pay for Poser Pro, get the Pro license, and the Pro features.

    What you want won't translate into more Poser sales.

    You want advanced features - pay for the advanced version.

    The add-on frame work allows 3rd parties to add features that, by themselves, wouldn't justify the development costs for SM.



  • @ssgbryan Hmm, then that might explain why SM doesn't fix known issues with Poser Pro's core features or add new ones. It's not worth their time. Tell me the part again how if I want advanced features that don't work properly and won't be addressed for years, I should pay for the advanced version. :)


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    @eclark1849 Seriously?
    That's a bit unfair to the developers past and present. There have been a number of new features added to Poser over the last few years. And if you aren't willing to update to the latest SR then you don't really get to complain about what is and isn't working properly and expect to be taken seriously.

    Some things take a lot more time and planning to upgrade or add in than others.


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    @eclark1849
    Earl? At one point you wanted to become a beta tester and now you say you don't even update with the SR's that contain the bug fixes????? Huh !

    Only 3 things can kill Poser :

    • Going cloudware
    • Going subscription
    • Going the "add-on" route.


  • @eclark1849

    Get up to speed with the software before you try and initiate change.

    If you don't keep up with SRs you have no right to complain about bugs, or their solving, or lack there of.

    You claim that Game Dev is still a separate program. You are on SM's web site so look at what they sell. No Game Dev. Those features are part of Poser Pro.

    There is an addon structure in Poser. The program was designed with a place to hook them into the core. It's called Addons for some strange reason and contains such items by default such as Python or Kinect Capture. The addon framework was specifically set up to make the inclusion of new features by third parties or the Poser team themselves easier and modular. Something you seem to feel would make Poser better if added?

    There is a free alternative to Poser that works the way you ask. Stuff breaks with every addon and product update. It is never fixed. Just ignored till the next update in the permanent beta cycle where new problems arise. For the folk that never update their software, I suppose this might be a solution. Just wait for the new beta and ignore existing issues. I for one am glad that is not the road taken by SM.



  • @vilters I have NEVER said I wanted to beta test Poser. I was just curious as to how one would become one.

    As for your three Poser killers, I agree on the first two, no one has convince me on the third.



  • @parkdalegardener I think I'm pretty well versed in Poser for the amount of use I get out of it. I don't keep up with the SRs because Poser works fine for me as it is. If the SRs added some particular new functionality that it didn't have before, or if my version was buggy and the SR would fix it, then yeah I'd add it. But why would I update a stable (for me) version of the software if doing so would break something else that was working just fine before?

    Apparently SM thinks there's a Game Dev version. They certainly entreat people to upgrade to it: This is from their website.

    Already own Poser? Upgrade Today!

    Upgrade from Game Dev, Pro 2014, Pro 2012, Pro 2010, Pro

    As for the free alternative to Poser... I already use Blender thanks. :)



  • @AmbientShade

    @AmbientShade said in Poser Features as Add-ons?:

    @eclark1849 Seriously?
    That's a bit unfair to the developers past and present. There have been a number of new features added to Poser over the last few years. And if you aren't willing to update to the latest SR then you don't really get to complain about what is and isn't working properly and expect to be taken seriously.

    Some things take a lot more time and planning to upgrade or add in than others.

    Ah, you think I'm being unfair? Did you not notice the thread a couple of weeks ago, asking what was useful in Poser and what needed to go? Did you read any of the responses? How many years have people been asking for fixes or improvements to The Cloth Room, The Face Room, The Hair Room, or animation? Wasn't the Cloth Room introduced in version 5? and the next version is 12. That's over half the life of the program, but I'm still using it. But apparently I have no right to ask Poser to fix anything because I didn't upgrade to the latest SR. Well, if the latest SR fixes or improves all that stuff, I'll download it right away and you'll never get another peep out of me.

    Oh, and for the record, I've been using Poser since version 2. The only versions I've skipped since then have been 3 and 5.


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    @eclark1849

    "then that might explain why SM doesn't fix known issues with Poser Pro's core features or add new ones. "

    You clearly implied with this statement that Poser never fixes anything or add new features.

    Several of the SRs for Poser 11 fix issues that were present in the core release and add additional functionality to various features that they couldn't get to with the initial release. I'm not going to list them all here, you can read the notes on the various SRs. A lot of people had stability and other issues with Poser 11's initial release, that only became apparent after launch, especially in regards to content creation. Most every one of those issues have been fixed since then as far as I'm aware. All the ones I use have been fixed. I still run SR6 which has been extremely stable. I haven't had time to install SR7.

    Not expanding the hair or cloth room's functionality is by no means the same as leaving them broken. They aren't broken. They work just fine for what they do. Limited, yes. Broken, no. And there have been improvements made to the cloth room functionality since its original release. There are also licensing issues related to those areas of the program that might be preventing any further expansion or changes to them. I don't know the details of the licensing. I do know that the face room licensing restricts certain things from being done with it. Removing and replacing with something else - if the licensing even allows for that - will remove its functionality for all the existing figures that use it. Just one example.



  • @AmbientShade Okay, you guys win. As of today I will no longer use Poser or complain about it. Happy now? Look I'm deleting it from my computer as I type this.



  • @eclark1849 said in Poser Features as Add-ons?:

    We currently have three versions of Poser NOW. Regular Poser 11, Poser Pro 11, and Poser Pro Game Dev.

    Yes and No. Poser Pro Game Dev is Poser 10 era. For Poser 11, the Game Dev features were rolled into Poser Pro 11.



  • @Deecey Thanks for the clarification, Deecey. However, I no longer care. Apparently everything I've ever said, thought or done on Poser has been negated by the simple fact that I didn't upgrade to the latest SR that i apparently didn't need. This IS my last post on the matter as I'm tired of being attacked. I'm keeping my thoughts to myself from