What a wonderful animation!



  • @Ghostman
    That's some freaky digital cosplay (aka motion capture), and the character looks finger licking good too.
    The only way one could tel it's CG, is by how poorly the eyes are handled (1000 yard stare syndrome).


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @krios But still among the better I've seen.



  • Speaking of eyes ... This one blows me away ...



  • @Ghostman
    It's all good Ghostman, truly one of the finest CG in realistic looking human animations. Excellent cinematography, model, texturing... PRO work all the way to the bank, because that doesn't look like cheap animation, $300-400 per sec?

    @Deecey
    That's an insane rig, bones for facial animation.



  • Consider this animation, featured at NHK, apparently created by 5 high school students:

    Why is it so difficult to create that kind of thing out of Poser? This animation does not have smooth movements or complex drawings or realistic renderings or elaborate characters, but it does bring a huge sense of artistry and simplicity that I find it strangely difficult to even come close in Poser...



  • @fbs7
    You are right, Poser will never come close to hand drawn animation, and those 5 talented high school students will never come close to what Poser can do either... never! Just think about the stuff we take for granted: rayraced shadows, dynamic cloth & hair, DOF, smooth 24 FPS animation, camera and light controls... good luck with that in 2D. The rest is just cinematography, story telling with images, more than doable with Poser and the 1000s of props available for it.



  • @krios said in What a wonderful animation!:

    @fbs7
    You are right, Poser will never come close to hand drawn animation, and those 5 talented high school students will never come close to what Poser can do either... never! Just think about the stuff we take for granted: rayraced shadows, dynamic cloth & hair, DOF, smooth 24 FPS animation, camera and light controls... good luck with that in 2D. The rest is just cinematography, story telling with images, more than doable with Poser and the 1000s of props available for it.

    Correct, but I suspect it's feasible to have a material preset or shader of some kind that gives that anime-like look.

    You see, once you have the cartoony or anime-y look, animation actually becomes easier; a realistic figure asks for realistic movement (otherwise the brain goes "bing!" on that), while everybody is already trained to accept non-realistic movements in cartoons/animes.



  • @fbs7
    And that's exactly what RUBY is. You gotta wonder though if 2D animators ever obsess over making their work look like 3D.
    This is a pointless question, but what's the point of changing the native style of a given medium just to mimic another one?



  • @krios said in What a wonderful animation!:

    @fbs7
    And that's exactly what RUBY is. You gotta wonder though if 2D animators ever obsess over making their work look like 3D.
    This is a pointless question, but what's the point of changing the native style of a given medium just to mimic another one?

    The way I see it, the advantage of a toony/anime-y look is that it gives relief on animation, and most people are already trained to accept that look, from years watching them in childhood. Cartoon/anime movements do not need to be realistic, and there's already a suspension of disbelief in place from that.

    So I think that a toony/anime-y look big benefit is that it makes the animation cheaper and simpler to make. That's why I posted the example above - it's so minimalist in movements, it can could easily be animated in say Poser. But if we try to do that in Poser with default cartoon look it will look really bad.

    I think that's because of the mixed look, somewhere between anime and CGI, with the high frame rates of CGI and also its many complex movements, but with a bad copy of the anime look which still cannot hide its roots as 3D shaded CGI.

    I just can't watch those things. I loved Steamboy because it blended CGI and anime so perfectly one cannot tell which is what; but I hated Anjin (and many other CGI series, unfortunately RWBY included) and couldn't watch a single episode just because it looked like a bad mix.



  • @fbs7 said in What a wonderful animation!:

    I just can't watch those things. I loved Steamboy because it blended CGI and anime so perfectly one cannot tell which is what; but I hated Anjin (and many other CGI series, unfortunately RWBY included) and couldn't watch a single episode just because it looked like a bad mix.

    And that's where the problem is, "bad mix".
    Most, if not all the characters in Steamboy are hand drawn. Most of the environment is CG. Good mix. But is still a mix, and is neither or. The great works, Pixar, Studio Ghibli and the like, stick to one medium and don't try to make it look like something else.

    You are right though, a simplified or stylized style might make animation easier, and if you were to imitate that sample of yours in Poser (limited framerate: 4-6 FPS?), it would be like blocking out an animation in 3D, or more bluntly, a half a job... of course it would be easier then full 24 FPS stuff.



  • Another example of what I was saying; consider this:

    I thought that animation is excellent; very charming, minimalist and a bit funny; so much that someone paid that for an ad. And yet it's simplicity to perfection.

    But, if we try to do that in Poser, it will look odd; it will lose the charm.



  • Let me digress a minute. Even on that minimalist animation, I counted 8 different mouth expressions, not two alike one another, and all of them very exaggerated.

    Mouths are a very important part of expression, and because the hand draw artist can do anything, he can convey feelings much more easily - it just takes a line.

    Meanwhile in 3D CGI we're anchored to realistic mouth shapes, which convey much much less expression. Actually several of the rigs only have things like OpenMouth, and A, O, M. Can't put any expression into that.

    And that's one of the ways, I think, that the charm goes away.



  • @fbs7
    Looks like A to Z Wineworks is being cheap with their advertising... if they would have had real 'cojones', they would have gone to CG animation like Triumph did: (23M views, not 1.2!)

    Now try to tell me that this piece has no charm... go ahead, try. ;]

    It's not the medium of CG, or the limited mouth shapes some Poser puppets have, but how the character rig is built and how it is animated that makes the cookie crumble.

    Please keep in mind, that animation is story telling! The medium is completely irrelevant. Do you think the cave man who painted on walls wished they could animate instead? Yes! Yes they sure did:



  • @krios said in What a wonderful animation!:

    @fbs7
    Looks like A to Z Wineworks is being cheap with their advertising...

    Haha, precisely my point: one can spend a lot of time and money with 3D and get beautiful and moving results (there's an entire 3D movie industry that proves that), but I think it is significantly more difficult to get good results with 3D animation on a cheap budget and in little time, as compared to cell animation.

    Say that Triumph video (now I know what Triumph is, hahaha, thanks for that)... I counted only 6 rigs there (including the headless mannequin), but it must have some 100-200 props all over the place, maybe some 10-20 backdrops and multiple cloth animations. So even before one posed anything it must have been a great amount work to get all those assets in place.

    I think that once you have a collection of assets including very expressive rigs it's easier --
    that's why I'll never abandon my beloved Terai Yuki 2. But I think initially it is a very steep climb, and inexpressive rigs are a major trouble.

    ps I: gotta love that 2 second dance of the girl in green; that was awesome!
    ps II: lucky frog that one!!



  • By the way, no kidding, that 2 sec dance was incredible. I must have repeated that segment some 20 times to try and get the movements.



  • @fbs7 said in What a wonderful animation!:

    Haha, precisely my point: one can spend a lot of time and money with 3D and get beautiful and moving results (there's an entire 3D movie industry that proves that), but I think it is significantly more difficult to get good results with 3D animation on a cheap budget and in little time, as compared to cell animation.

    Your point is becoming a bit more clear now. You are right fbs7, if you throw enough money at it, you could make the Earth spin the other way.

    Let's take it a step further if you feel like it...
    How much do you think the 3D Triumph commercial costs per sec.? $200-$500?
    What about the 2D wine commercial? $50-$100/sec.? *[ hint ]*

    Then we can look at the cost/views, and it would probably be very close, or the 2D might even outperform the 3D for $/views

    ...that's why I'll never abandon my beloved Terai Yuki 2. ...
    Guess which puppet was cast for the leading role of Psyche?



  • Whaaaaaat? How is it possible that Family Guy costs almost $100,000 per minute with such horrible, lazy animation??

    Holy macaroles!

    I have a quote from a website with this:

    "In the November 5th issue of Shūkan Tōyō Keizai, which goes on sale Monday in Japan, a special report looks at the balancing act between quality and cost in the Japanese entertainment industry. The anime section of it breaks down the expenses associated with producing a TV anime series. So how much does one episode cost to make?

    According to an investigation by Media Development Research Institute Inc., a 30 minute episode of a TV anime in 2010 that totaled 11,000,000 yen (about US $145,214 at the current exchange rate) consisted of the following expenses:"

    No wonder the Japanese dominated the market, if it costs $150K there to make an entire 24-minute episode, while The Family Guy costs $100K per minute!



  • Although I imagine that high-end japanese anime probably cost much more than that; I remember reading a quote of around $1M somewhere for high-end animes, which at 25 minutes makes about $40K per minute.



  • @fbs7
    $100K/min. is definitely prime time land only.
    The Japanese are well known for their economical ways of getting the job done, especially when it comes to animation.



  • I think they should cancel the Family Guy and put the 3 girls from Triumph instead, having varied troubles like "Fighting The Horrible Bra Thieves", or "Triumph Saved My Modesty When It Rained And I Only Had a Nightgown", or "Adventures in Transylvania in Impractical Costumes". All that mixed with amazing 3-seconds dance scenes.

    It would be a hit, I tell ya. And it would be much cheaper than Family Guy, because (a) It would need no script; (b) It would need no famous voice overs; (c) the same scene can be repeated multiple times from several angles, increasing productivity.