Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Nobody disputes the need for instancing.

    But the lead developer asked us what we use metaballs for.

    The answer is not instancing.

    Waah.

    Oh - here's something - you can use toothpicks to make a ship. Maybe you want to ask for toothpicks.

    0_1504891898190_toothpick ship.jpg



  • An Instancer would be great too, but I think one can also use particles for still frame renders, not only for animations



  • @karina said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    and @@ fbs7, your avalanche would look rather boring without hundreds of instanced trees overrun by that avalanche...

    Sorry, I don't want to sound rude, but why not being a bit more realistic and down-to-earth?

    Hey, I'm all for instancing too; I could then add some crowd to watch my cheerleaders, haha...

    About being down to earth, I'm all for it; that's why I think that a simple implementation of metaballs costs very little. There's plenty of public domain code for 3D metaballs, just need to base on that.

    Now, there are some advanced topics with metaballs; for example texture mapping; I really don't get how some folks manage to use the same texture with dynamic metaballs when the number of vertices in the object changes. It sounds complicated to implement, maybe even proprietary; so I wouldn't ask for that.

    I almost always only ask for simple things.



  • @bagginsbill I believe instancing was mentioned because of this in the OP. "If the team were to spend time implementing this specific thing, would it be worth it as a trade off for another needed feature or Wishlist item?" Instancing happened to be the other needed feature most of us wish for. :)



  • @karina said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    Just sayin':
    How often do you folks render a figure in a filling up bathtub, or an avalanche?
    OTOH, how often do you render scenes where instancing would be a heavenly feature to free sorely needed RAM? (don't overlook the forest for the trees, or imagine a bar scene with hundreds of glasses and bottles in the cupboard)

    Think of all the glasses in the bar that need filling up :)

    This metaballs discussion reminds me of the hype about Bullet physics a few years ago. Some yelled for it, and they got it. Now, how often is that feature actually used today? Show me some examples!

    @erogenesis showed a little anim he did using the soft-body Bullet physics not long ago

    Sorry, I don't want to sound rude, but why not being a bit more realistic and down-to-earth?
    Focus on things that are really helpful in our everyday work. Instead of wishing for eclectic features that only a tiny fraction of Poser users actually will use, add some useful things to go on pars with the competition.

    So because it isn't in your remit it's a waste of time and resources?

    DAZ already has instancing AFAIK.
    Poor "obsolete" Poser still needs hundreds of separate props for a simple forest scene!

    Yes instancing would be good, but again, how many people just do pinup style renders where there is no need for instancing? By that logic instancing isn't needed.

    Just because features aren't shown being used in forums, doesn't mean those features aren't wanted or being used.



  • Merci Ladonna,

    I'm doing both and mostly focused on people.
    But without a landscape we only get the infamous "test renders" against a grey background.
    I like to render my figures IN a landscape, and them interacting with it.

    E.g., imagine a figure walking in a wood (just to keep up that example):
    Sure you could render it against a photo background.
    But what about the shadows cast on that figure by the trees? Just try to load three realistic trees to cast shadows and Poser seriously starts to choke.

    And sorry BB, I could live well if the waterfall in the background would have no metaballs (should I ever wish to animate my still render...)

    Karina



  • @karina said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    Sure you could render it against a photo background.

    This reminds me ... there appears to be a bug in regards to rendering against a photo background in SuperFly. After turning off the ground (The Construct), you can see the background image as normal. However, let's say you are rendering against a background image that is portrait aspect (taller than it is wide). The image previews fine, but it appears as though when rendering it resizes the aspect ratio of the background image into a square. IIRC, this doesn't happen in FireFly (I have to check again).


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @karina I know what you mean :) Pin Ups are not my style. Love to watch others Pin up work, but I am not good with this.
    If Poser could do proper Instances, this would be awesome. Use sometimes the Instance for TerraDome. But it only works in TerraDome and is very heavy, because it use the full geometry from the Plants. With 300 Plants you struggle already a lot, even with a good machine. And 300 for a forest scene is quick done.



  • @bagginsbill Great demo. Is that possible now in Poser .. if not, what would it require? Is Cycles != Blender? Could you do it in Python in Poser?



  • @Deecey And if you crop your image to a square first?



  • @Ladonna said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    If Poser could do proper Instances, this would be awesome. Use sometimes the Instance for TerraDome. But it only works in TerraDome and is very heavy, because it use the full geometry from the Plants. With 300 Plants you struggle already a lot, even with a good machine. And 300 for a forest scene is quick done.

    I'm thinking a simple way to instance static stuff is to use something like hair editor, just like we do it now, and then instead of making it grow a polyline of a given size make it grow a prop of a given size (say a grass leaf).

    Voila, simple instancing!

    I'm actually trying to decide if I'm making a joke or not, and it's one of those cases I honestly don't know, haha



  • @fbs7 said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @Ladonna said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    If Poser could do proper Instances, this would be awesome. Use sometimes the Instance for TerraDome. But it only works in TerraDome and is very heavy, because it use the full geometry from the Plants. With 300 Plants you struggle already a lot, even with a good machine. And 300 for a forest scene is quick done.

    I'm thinking a simple way to instance static stuff is to use something like hair editor, just like we do it now, and then instead of making it grow a polyline of a given size make it grow a prop of a given size (say a grass leaf).

    Voila, simple instancing!

    I'm actually trying to decide if I'm making a joke or not, and it's one of those cases I honestly don't know, haha

    but it would be fun growing a lot of grass leaves or many mini trees into someone's head, haha :D



  • @h.elwood.gilliland said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @Deecey And if you crop your image to a square first?

    Not always a solution, there are times you want to have your background image non-square (for example, rendering to video, or doing promotional renders for content promotion). I would suspect the same happens with background video as well. I will dig into it a bit.



  • @bagginsbill Hmm... Meta balls or fluid sims... Let me think...



  • Blimey!
    You folks are replying faster than i can type my posts...

    I've made my point and derailed the thread already (sorry!)
    So I'll bow out now.

    Cheers!
    Karina


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Well I agree a true fluid simulation is superior to metaballs. But I didn't really think the Poser team would even tackle such a thing.

    As has been stated more than once, metaballs are cheap. They are computationally simple both to program and to execute.

    Fluid sims - oh my. If the new team is that good, well, yeah do that instead.

    Metaballs is to fluid simulation as ambient occlusion is to full global illumination. It's a cheap hack that ordinary humans with ordinary computers and ordinary budgets can afford.



  • @h.elwood.gilliland said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    And if you crop your image to a square first?

    Oh sure. Now that I'm trying to test it, I can't reproduce it. So now I have to figure out what triggers it.

    Isn't that always the way? LOL



  • @bagginsbill I wasn't arguing against metaballs, but experience has taught me that once Poser adds a feature, it takes an act of Congress to get rid of it. So maybe never. :D



  • @h-elwood-gilliland
    OK my 5 cents in this:
    I would say let Poser do and become better in what Poser is known for and good at. There is no need for a diluted Blender but there is need for a better Poser.
    Of course it would be fun to have in Poser a method to create 'geometry' without the mess of meshes, Isosurfaces were my favorite toy in PovRay, and those combined with the power of the Material room would be awesome, but there are other and IMHO higher priorities. Unless the meta- or iso- object technology is a prelude to awesome figure technology with an elastic skin mesh 'floating' in a force field of muscle actions, and volume constraints, I would say concentrate on aspects that Poser's core business can benefit from:

    • making Poser rock-stable
    • dynamic clothing (Liaise with Marvelous Designer)
    • figure no longer separate objects and cut mesh but single mesh; .
    • dynamic hair
    • support content Xchange beween figures
    • add DAZ formats, unless encrypted, as import and export formats.


  • @F_Verbaas said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @h-elwood-gilliland
    OK my 5 cents in this:
    I would say let Poser do and become better in what Poser is known for and good at. There is no need for a diluted Blender but there is need for a better Poser.
    Of course it would be fun to have in Poser a method to create 'geometry' without the mess of meshes, Isosurfaces were my favorite toy in PovRay, and those combined with the power of the Material room would be awesome, but there are other and IMHO higher priorities. Unless the meta- or iso- object technology is a prelude to awesome figure technology with an elastic skin mesh 'floating' in a force field of muscle actions, and volume constraints, I would say concentrate on aspects that Poser's core business can benefit from:

    • making Poser rock-stable
    • dynamic clothing (Liaise with Marvelous Designer)
    • figure no longer separate objects and cut mesh but single mesh; .
    • dynamic hair
    • support content Xchange beween figures
    • add DAZ formats, unless encrypted, as import and export formats.

    These would definitely be high on my list as well. Your third would be my #1. ;-)