Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:)



  • @eclark1849 said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @fbs7 Okay, I know I'm going to be jumped on here, but seriously, I'm tired of hearing you whine and trying to guilt everyone into shutting up so you can get what you want.

    Wow, that's a very mean post, specially since I didnt reply to any of your posts; I replied to Ladonna in favor of instancing; my argument with fverbaas was that he's saying that if metaballs get in then something gets out, and I'm saying we don't know about that, as we don't manage SM.

    I don't understand what you're talking about whining. Maybe you refer that I said this discussion is derailing and got me depressed, for the reason that instead of defending their own desires some people insist in arguing against other people's desires as if they were exclusive. They aren't. I say: "I wish you can have the best chocolate ice cream in the world, nothing wrong about that, I still want my pistachio".



  • @fbs7 said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @eclark1849 said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    ... my argument with fverbaas was that he's saying that if metaballs get in then something gets out, and I'm saying we don't know about that, as we don't manage SM.

    Please scratch that (I wish there was an Edit function here); fverbaas said "let us keep it at that", and I intend so.



  • @fverbaas said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    The question I answered was:
    If the team were to spend time implementing this specific thing, would it be worth it as a trade off for another needed feature or Wishlist item?

    And I think that's just what many people here misunderstood:

    This thread isn't about another endless list of what etherical features "could" be built into Poser. We had them by the hundreds already, and they went from ten to thousand and ended up nowhere because they were too individual and (mostly, sorry) too eclectic.

    This thread is about prioritizing what's most practical and can be used by the majority of users who never heard of (or cared for) many of the other eclectic features ever.

    They just want to produce a nice render after the end of the day with minimum fuss...

    Keep this in mind please - the majority of Poser users aren't us forum members, but the silent majority out there who don't even know about this place!

    Don't overestimate our "self- alleged" importance:
    We are just a few freaks compared to the vast majority of Poser Noobs out there.

    But that "silent majority" is the folks who still buy Poser instead of going DAZ|Studio, and they should be provided with the best and easy tools to make Poser superiour to the competition.

    And ASAP please!

    Karina


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'm going to throw this out there.
    Meta rigging...

    Yes, you heard me, meta balls can also be used in various types of rigging as well.
    And that can be using it, with, or without bones.
    Basically muscle systems.
    But why would we want the figures to bend better, you know, like a real person does?
    What was I thinking? lol...

    Food for thought...

    On another note, stop attacking each other.
    If you want to troll, attack, etc; find another bridge...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @shvrdavid That's an intriguing idea; I can see how metablobs could be used to simulate muscle mass, breasts, etc. I don't enough to define how the meta-muscles would deform the skin mesh, but I can imagine a shrinkwrap of the skin over the meta-muscles. Hmmm...

    @h.elwood.gilliland said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    Is Cycles != Blender?

    Cycles is the render engine; Blender is the 3D studio. You would model, set up materials, work out motion sequences in Blender; you would render in Cycles. The names frequently occur together because Cycles is the render engine developed for and used by the 3D studio Blender.

    It's like the distinction between Firefly and Poser; Firefly is the render engine associated with the 3D studio Poser.



  • @seachnasaigh said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @shvrdavid That's an intriguing idea; I can see how metablobs could be used to simulate muscle mass, breasts, etc. I don't enough to define how the meta-muscles would deform the skin mesh, but I can imagine a shrinkwrap of the skin over the meta-muscles. Hmmm...

    That is what I referred to in the post above, figure technology based on a dynamic skin/clothing mesh (for the texture) with the vertices floating on a force field of blobs held together by the mesh membrane stresses and sublect to inertia forces, gravity, collisions, and constraints by volume and ligament connections to inside structure.
    But hey that is a totally different subject and scope. Let us stay to topic.



  • Replying to the opening post:
    I can do all that fluid sim particles blah blah with Blender. Uhmmmm, so why do I need to use Poser ? Because it is optimised for human figure creation and posing. Yeah, sure, other software do it as well. But. Price-performance matrix, plus, I don't need to pilot an intersteller spacecraft when all I want is to get from point A to Point B in my town. Nice to have, but not an absolute must. As a Shade 3D user, I already get metaballs as well. I think there may be something about production workflow which may not neccessarily mean Poser needs to have metaball capability - but hey, I am just a lowly user. Drag me along with your next upgrade. Whatever.



  • @h.elwood.gilliland said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    So, Metaballs, or something else (maybe several something elses) for the next Poser release. Help me decide. Tell me why we should sacrifice development time for this one thing.

    I don't care one bit about metaballs. People got excited about script-generated geometry and physics waaay back when, due to a now orphaned script. (Python generation and manipulation of objects has been around forever, but I guess it was the "physicality" of the metaball script that people were so excited about.)

    If you waste more time on metaballs than it takes you to read over this thread, you've wasted too much. Dock your pay, go sit in a corner and think about what you've done! :)

    I want the frightening, dank, closet that is Poser's Hair Room expunged. I want it replaced with a hair generation and simulation tool that is worthy of a contemporary application that specializes in high-end-hobbyist grade rendering with both simulated and PBR renderers.

    RE: If a Poser Figure's hair scares you because it looks like someone electrocuted a surprised wombat and glued it onto someone's head, it was definitely made using the Poser Hair Room.

    I would like a particle/emitter system that is powerful, yet easy to use. I think such a system would act to reset the current standard, giving Poser a definite, user-friendly and highly accessible, edge.

    I would like the Poser dev-team to examine how it currently allows implementation of third-party presets, where it does, and to examine how it can expand this to where it doesn't. That means making it easy for users to develop, apply and share presets, in order to take advantage of more "under-the-hood" Power, but power that is accessible without Python knowledge. ie: The easy ability to import and export presets for all of Poser's "rooms." The goal is to try to provide an easy-to-use platform so Poser users can easily generate and share their favorite tweaks and one that does not, necessarily, require a python script, which is ever in danger of being orphaned. ie: Cloth, hair (WHEN a new app is created; Do nothing to emphasize use of the current one!), rendering, etc.. (I know this is somewhat confusing, given Poser's native file exchange system, but just take away that the focus is to allow Poser users, themselves, to generate and redistribute even more "content.")

    Poser Physics - Never used it. I'm sure it's awesome, but it's a bit arcane and I haven't sat down to try to use it. I don't use Poser for animation, so... BUT, I can see it's powerful. So, work on adding the functionality and ease of use that Poser's other, more mainline, features have. Allow for Physics simulations, or scenes with them, to be easily imported/exported. (I have no idea if that can be done, now, and if it can... Well, who's fault is it that I don't know that? :) ) See if you can work in some sort of preset/file/data system that lets certain properties in a physics scene to be redistributed. ie: Physical properties of an object can be set by a "pose" or a separate injection/file-type. (Don't use it, so this part of post probably doesn't make sense. Just know I want more opportunities, as many as possible, for users to help easily generate, use, and redistribute content and freebies, to boost the content footprint, overall, of Poser, for its own good. Do that wherever you can.}

    Firefly - I know it's not PBR, but can something more be done with improving the control over lighting? Lumens? Some controls appear to do nothing at all. Start/end light controls do... nothing? I love the idea of more accurate lighting models, but that's where "sense" seems to stop with lighting controls. (I could just be an idiot, which many have claimed in the past, no matter my own protestations... :) )

    Superfly - Desperately need a more ease-of-access way to use Superfly. That may be due to a lack of redistributed, freebie, lighting/rendering presents and the obvious need for user fine-tuning, since everyone's render is different. But, anything that makes it "easier to learn" how to tweak appropriately will make it easier to use and easier to achieve satisfactory results. Tute's won't do it - It needs hands-on experience to learn and it takes a long time to work through those renders, so more support for presets, there, or more available, would be very nice for an "Intro to Superfly."

    Rendering: Incorporate a hardware detection system that will give the user some feedback on what the recommended rendering settings for their system should be. (Buckets/etc) Poser's native, "lite", rendering preset tool.. Well, I haven't used it since waay back when, preferring more control, since its setting choices were just "bad." Perhaps incorporating something into that, that yields better results, would be the way to go.

    Snarly's EZSkin script is outstanding and I'd hate to use Poser without. Consider it or something similar for the future in terms of ease-of-use for common material tweaking, like human skin SSS.

    D3D's Rendering script it awesome.

    Snarly's Scenefixer is something I will never do without... unless you make me. Just the few simple functions it incorporates make user's lives much, much, easier, saving a lot of time for tedious tasks. It makes using Poser a better experience and that's something that any dev's ears should perk up to. :) (It needs... even more features, too. :) )

    PS - Thanks for reaching out to the community!


  • Poser Team

    Thanks! We're working hard to determine a roadmap for things people share with me, and I'm happy to include these things in a growing pile of possible future endeavors. Keep 'em coming, but also please keep in mind it's not solely up to me or any other team member, this is a group effort and we'll do our best to prioritize feature suggestions from anyone who contacts us.



  • @h.elwood.gilliland Can we do a paint bucket "fill" for weight mapping? Assuming we don't already have it.



  • @eclark1849 said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    @h.elwood.gilliland Can we do a paint bucket "fill" for weight mapping? Assuming we don't already have it.

    Well its not quite a 'paint bucket' fill but you can use the eyedropper to select a weight and then paint to that specific weight for anything under your brush. It essentially accomplishes the same thing.



  • @h.elwood.gilliland said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    Thanks! We're working hard to determine a roadmap for things people share with me, and I'm happy to include these things in a growing pile of possible future endeavors. Keep 'em coming, but also please keep in mind it's not solely up to me or any other team member, this is a group effort and we'll do our best to prioritize feature suggestions from anyone who contacts us.

    You are here...

    You are an "official person" because you have a cool tag by your name...

    You are talking to us, the unwashed masses of barely literate hobbyists...

    Therefore, it is all your fault, no matter what happens. :)

    (Thank you!)



  • So It me a bit of time to gather my thoughts on this subject. Looking at the videos posted I am not impressed. They for the most part look like a bunch of balls trying to break away from each other, which they do. It reminds me of a horror movie where they use a rubber wall and push a head or hands on the back side to make a impression of someone trapped on the wrong side. Looking at the milk being poured looks like a snake that swallowed a bunch of golf balls. When you get enough of them together it starts to smooth however it still has points where the sphere's start to poke out. When they start to fall apart the parts turn back into balls and roll all over. If this is suppose to be water does not react correctly. One suggestion was that it could be used to skin a figure and improve bending. Look at the first video where some of the balls have a target pattern applied and see how it crawls all over the place. Now image that was a face or hands. Might make a great horror effect but have you seen anyone in real life with fingernails that move all over their fingers?

    Given all the issues that are already in Poser, adding another half baked function will not make the program anymore useful or a must have. If you have Poser 10 or Poser 11 prior to SR 6 try the collapse layers function to see an example of an idea that sounds good but does not work as expected. The fact that it got fixed after I reported it shows that not a lot of people use many if any of the animation features in Poser.



  • @richard60 said in Tell me your desires: Blobs, particles, fluids, flames (but not flame wars:):

    If you have Poser 10 or Poser 11 prior to SR 6 try the collapse layers function to see an example of an idea that sounds good but does not work as expected. The fact that it got fixed after I reported it shows that not a lot of people use many if any of the animation features in Poser.

    Or it shows the function is not very useful. I used a lot of animation for many years, and I never actually used that button. I use layers for incidental things like expressions, blinking and talking, and if I move all these keys back to the main layer it will get very polluted. What I need is actually the opposite function, which is to move some parameters out of the main layer and into another layer, to make key management more manageable. That I'd immediately notice it is broken.

    So to say that people don't do animation because of that may be a bit of over-conclusion. But I do concur that the people that post in this forum is mostly oriented to high-quality rendering, and maybe that is representative of the non-forum community.