Need info on how to create a partial material



  • Hi,

    So here is what I need to do.... In DAZ Studio for my upcoming female character for Dawn I was able to make partial lip gloss options, four in all, matt, slight gloss, gloss and high gloss. SO I wanted to recreate that for the Poser users too but I'm at a loss on how to achieve that.

    I got Lyrra's PDF from over at ShareCG but it didn't really answer my needs.

    I tried just checking off the selected nodes option, which if it worked it would be great but instead I selected the main node as that's where all the Specular Color and Value and Hilight Size are located and that's all I really need to create this effect but instead when I double clicked on the newly created setting all the other nodes went away. So rather it being an additive to the current node set up it removed everything else.

    So is there no way to make this work for what I'm looking to do here?

    Thanks much
    Richard


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Hi, RAM! OK, so you already know how to save just a selected group of nodes, right?

    To load them, left-click once to select the library item (your node group). Then hover the cursor down to the bottom of the library panel, going over the single check mark and double check mark icons. One of those should offer adding the group of nodes (the other will replace).

    You may still need to make some connections, to merge the existing material and the added group of nodes.



  • Thank you. I'll give that a try. I'm SO out of practice using Poser that I feel like a babe in the woods. So all the help I'm getting from this community is very much appreciated.

    Rich


  • Poser Ambassadors

    That won't help. RAMWolff wants a library-clickable file that just modifies the specular_value and highlight_size of the existing PoserSurface root node. There is no way to do that using only tools/dialogs built into Poser.

    Saving a partial material still saves the ENTIRE node(s) that you selected. You can't just save a few parameters from a node.

    Applying a partial material will ADD an entire new root node with nothing connected in Poser 11. In previous Posers it would replace the entire root node wiping out all settings -- neither of those accomplishes the OP stated goal.

    The only way I know to do this is with a Python script. The script can be associated with a library file icon, but it's manual to build one. I think semidieu has a tool that will help non-programmers do this. Sorry I don't know what it is called but it might be have the words Advanced and Shader and Manager in some combination.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    There are more than a few ways of going about this, but it depends on a lot of variables when it comes to which way you go about it.

    Too modify, say the specular on a material set, you can do it with animated textures and pose file that affect those shader dials in the figure.
    It is rather complex to set up, requiring multiple files to inject into the figure.
    Doing it this way, is not as good as doing it with a script. If a different shader set is applied to the figure, it will break the animated part.
    A script is a much better way of doing so, unless you are doing a production setup or working with the same figure and material set exclusively. The animated material injections and Pose route is both material and figure specific, in all cases.
    It is not the best option, more often than not.

    A fairly simple way of doing what the OP asked is to use a script like Ezskin.
    EzSkin will allow you to make adjustments figure wide and simply replace the entire shader set with one containing the new values.
    This can also become figure specific, as in the case of a figure that does not have a separate material for the lips.

    In Poser, lip gloss adjustment poses will usually include the entire node structure for the lips. (But not always)
    Scripts can get around that by modifying the shader, which still basically replaces it for you. It is basically just automated for you.
    Animated textures simply adjust the shader that is already in place, but presents some issues in the point and click department if something gets changed material wise in the figure.

    Now that I have said all of that, there is another way of doing some of this. But is only works on the PoserSurface root node.
    If your shader has, say specular, set up on a blinn node plugged into alternate specular in probably wont work.
    All you can change is the specular color of Alternate Specular with a pose, in that case.

    The PoserSurface root node accepts poses to change values on it.
    For example, consider this Pose file: You will have to fix the indents, the forum removes them for some reason...

    {

    version
    {
    number 4.0
    }

    figure
    {
    material SkinTorso
    {
    bumpStrength 0.40
    }
    }
    }

    This pose will change the bump value, of the PoserSurface node, on SkinTorso to 0.40 without affecting the rest of the material tree.
    Somewhere I have a list of what the internal names are that you have to shoot for, but I would have to look for that.
    The Python manual will give you the internal names needed, and the arguments.

    If you are using the standard Root node, this may be what you are looking for as far as just changing the specular.

    A lip file would look something like this, modifying only the specular color and value, without removing the material set in place.

    {

    version
    {
    number 4.0
    }

    figure
    {
    material Lips
    {
    KsColor 0.752941 0.752941 0.752941 1
    }
    }
    }

    If you stay with the PoserSurface root node as a base, you can modify every setting within that box without removing the node structure attached to it. Using nothing more than a pose file. This has been in place since about Poser 4 if I remember right.
    To do things like change gloss in a shader using a pose file without replacing it, you have to basically set the shader up the old way.

    Hope this helps.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @shvrdavid

    Oh yeah - the old-school Poser 4 material configuration would do. Still can't be done with Poser UI alone but it would work.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Also the resulting shader (based only on the built-in Specular node) isn't worth two spits compared to the Fresnel reflection shader you can get out of EZSkin, but if that's what you want, go for it.



  • I tried out EZSkin but honestly it creates SO MANY NODES that it's just overwhelming for me, an old newbie, to even understand but I'd be willing to go that route if I'm instructed on how to achieve this.

    It seems that Semi dropped out of the scripting game so it does me little good to use his scripts since, from what I've been told from another scripter that's over at Hivewire, is that the end user needs to have his scripts installed in order for it work. Can't go that route and actually I bought a couple of his script's thinking "oh, it's only a Python script, should work in Poser 11" NOPE it doesn't.

    I did manage to get Netherworks MATWriter Panel 2014 to load into Poser after a few tries. All I did was load it directly from the folder it resides in, since it wasn't loading from the Scripts drop down menu, then I docked it and had the panel remembered and now it works fine when I click on the script from the drop down menu. So if Joe ever surfaces again I hope he updates all his stuff to work natively in Poser 11. In the mean time I still need a script that can make this partial lip gloss setting work without erasing other nodes attached for the lips. IF it's possible. Not into hand editing files too much. Been there, done that, too tedious!

    Thanks so much for all the help and suggestions!
    Rich (Wolffie)



  • Hi Rich, I have about 10-12 of Joe's scripts installed in Poser 9 AND PoserPro11, and I see them all in the Scripts menu in both versions of Poser.

    I also just tested MATWriter Panel 2014 in PP11, and had absolutely no problem getting it to work.

    That said, where exactly do you have the files? I have Joe's scripts in a Netherworks folder located as follows:

    Runtime > Python > poserScripts > Netherworks.

    I also have files in the following location relating to Joe's scripts:

    Runtime > Python > poserScripts > ScriptsMenu > Netherworks.

    It's possible some of the files you have in the first location, need to be in the ScriptsMenu location.

    If you don't want to clutter up this thread, PM me over at HW, and let's get this straigtened out.



  • Hi Miss B! :-)

    Yes, it's working now but it was explained to me that I could do the mat files with this script but it's still the same issue. There is no way to make a partial partial lip gloss setting. Still going to save out the nodes for the full lip settings so that's not what I'm after. So back to just leaving things as they are for now until perhaps some kind soul that thinks it's a good idea to make a partial mat option for things like lips. Would be a good idea for hair too to turn down or up the glossiness of the hair. Or nails... anything shiny. I'm very surprised with all the great tools that Poser offers that there is no way to just select the surface areas you want and save them out without worrying about the original settings being deleted and replaced. I guess that's one area that DS excels in then.



  • Gotcha! I was just concerned that the script wasn't working at all, because I had no problem setting any of his scripts up in PP11 too.

    I understand your frustration about the partial mat issue, but I haven't tried anything like that so, unfortunately, don't have any words of wisdom to impart.



  • It's all good hon. Thanks for posting... See you at the Hive! XO



  • http://www.runtimedna.com/Advanced-Shaders.html

    This script allows you to make partial MAT poses and I believe it's the one by Semidieu that BB alluded to.



  • @raven The problem with that is twofold:

    1. Your users have to have a part of Semideu's program installed to use the materials, and
    2. Semideu has announced he is leaving 3D and no one will have access to the requirement in part 1 above when he does


  • Yes, it's too bad I can't hack the created settings and make it so they can be applied without the end users having to have Semi's script installed. :-(