Pauline and G3F: Adventures in Shrink Wrapping



  • If I understand the legalize, I can distribute a CR2 instead, which will capture the scaling. Per the EULA:

    • “Vendor Resource” means content that is included with or part of the Program that is specifically identified in the Documentation or listed in this EULA as a Vendor Resource. The following figures, their figure geometries and their associated textures are Vendor Resources:
      Pauline
      Pauline Casual
      Paul
      Paul Casual

    Vendor Resources may be used to create derivative works based on the Figure files, geometry or texture maps. In addition to the rights granted for Restricted Content you may use Vendor Resources for the following:

    Create and distribute derivative figures and figure clothing based on the geometry and character files.

    Create and distribute textures maps based on the figure’s texture maps.

    Create modified of improved character files for the figures.

    Export the modified or derivative figures for inclusion in game engines.

    You may not:

    Distribute the unmodified character files, geometry or textures.

    Repackage the unmodified Vendor Resources for use in software other than the Program.

    Derivative works created with Vendor Resources become the property of the author. Ownership of the actual Vendor Resource remains with the Company.



  • @RobZhena
    For legality from Smith Micro side I leave the floor to Nerd to confirm your reading is right.
    I think your main source of legal issues would be DAZ.
    You said you have been shrink-wrapping Genesis 3, which means you used their flagship product as a mould to create what basically would be a competing product. They may not be amused.
    Not sure what would happen even if you distributed a morph-shape for Pauline which, by sheer co-incidence and totally un-intended, would appear to be compatible with items made for the Genesis3Female.



  • Yeah. I rebuilt the figure using only Pauline morphs and left enough obvious differences that DAZ can never claim it's a copy. Thanks for you reply @F_Verbaas.



  • @RobZhena Admitting it on an open forum may not be the smartest move to make, though.



  • As I say, there are sufficient differences that it is not a copy.



  • I will say this, I'm still not in love with her face. I'm attributing that to the fact that for some reason, Poser figures really have sub-par skins. Obviously, that's my personal opinion, but I think a little more effort needs to go into making Poser skins in general.



  • @RobZhena Not a lawyer, but to a layman it seems that Daz would have a reasonable argument that your use is not Fair Use. Think of how you're going to reply to the plaintiff's attorney who asks: so if it's not really a copy, then why did you go through the drill? I could foresee a desist letter. On the other hand Daz may figure out that they're actually not Disney and have better uses for the few hundred dollars for an hour of lawyer time.

    Then there's the ethical question (using someone else's work without compensation or permission). I've been debating a similar case with my Jiminy Cricket (so sue me, Walt) and come to the personal decision that it just ain't. YMMV.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I am weary of commenting, but thought it might be prudent here.

    I hate Daz3D, everyone knows this (few know the real reasons why - out of respect for what Nerd3D and Smith Micro are trying to do here I will not post them openly here).

    That being said - I would have to generally agree F_Verbass and CuiBono in terms of legal standing. While there may be significant differences - the last Daz3D Eula I read from a product of theirs I had purchased, which was in 2012 granted, specifically forbid shrink wrapping or similar methods for use as creating competing products. Worse, there is now this thread, which likely Daz3d's little spies have already made them aware of in the event you make your product public, where you admit to using Daz's product.

    Personally, do I think you could prevail in such a legal claim? That depends, how deep are your pockets for a good attorney and motions and counter motions? I would love to see more morphs available for Poser's base figures, and I will admit, given how often Daz3D has stuck it too others, I like the idea of someone sticking it to them.

    Keep in mind, Daz3D loves to try to throw it's weight around. They love to send C&D and take down letters. So, be prepared for this possibility if you do proceed.



  • Sigh. All from a fun little project.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @RobZhena I wouldn't necessarily lose heart yet. You could always contact someone at Daz3D and get an official statement/position on this - who knows, they may say it's ok (stranger things have happened), or give you some steps on how to make it ok. If they do, I urge you to keep a copy of that though, for future reference if needed.



  • @RobZhena Sympathize. But maybe it's just God's way of saying: so learn to sculpt already! The means of production have never been cheaper or easier to use.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I have been watching this thread and thought I would should post this here.
    Here is a morph I made, and it resembles Victoria 7.
    Somewhat anyway, lol.
    alt text
    This is one of the first morphs I made for Victoria 3, and that was long before Victoria 4 was even made..
    When it comes to making figure morphs, sooner or later there will be some that resemble others.



  • @shvrdavid There's a similar thread to this over at Hivewire. I posted pretty much the same thought there. You can sculpt or manually manip the verts into any shape you want. Even if you came up with what looks like an exact duplicate of V7, it would still be an original work. As for the shape, DAZ can't copyright the shape of the human body.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 As for the shape, DAZ can't copyright the shape of the human body.

    That's not 100% correct all the time thou. They can't copyright it, but in some cases it can be trademarked.

    If Victoria 7 is a digital scan of a real person, (not saying it is thou) it could fall under Personality Rights, and can be trademarked. Similar to the Digital Clone Anna Goddard set for Victoria 3, any unlicensed likeness of it could be a violation of that trademark.

    Yeah, were splitting hairs here, but trademarks can be upheld in that case.



  • @shvrdavid It would have to be something very specific to a particular person though, like a smile, or the likeness of a person. In general, the shape of the human body isn't specific to any one person. Add to that the fact that V7 is basically just a morph. That said though you CAN trademark a particular style, like a toon, or anime style. For example, let's say DAZ put out a G3 morph in the shape of Jessica Rabbit. The producers of Who Framed Roger Rabbit might be able to convince a jury that that morph was an infringement on their copyright. The problem is, Jessica Rabbit, herself, is a blatant infringement of the actress Mae West's style and likeness.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Shrinkwrapping has killed more figures and clothing then all other tools combined.

    When taking a look at how some release clothing?
    => My fist comment always is : Hey why did you not simply paint the clothing on the figures texture?
    => That is NOT how clothing behaves. (Certainly between the breasts.)
    It is unbelievable what some try to shrinkwrap...... and sell.

    Sure, shrinkwrapping has its use, but we see it more in "abuse" then "use".



  • @vilters I don't think shrinkwrapping is anymore of a figure killer than using a pattern to create clothes or buying a bolt of cloth rather than going out and making the cloth yourself. Is it a short cut? Sure. For that matter, so is Cross Dresser, Wardrobe Wizard and Poser's Fitting Room.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Oh yes it is. Shrinkwrapping gives you far less control. It shrinkwraps mostly where it is not needed. :-)

    The other tools give you far more control over the flow of the mesh.
    And the fitting room has more then enough tools to "counter" the shrinkwrapping in places where it is not needed. LOL.



  • @vilters Well, again, I disagree. Shrinkwrapping is just a tool. For example, I'm using it right now to shape one mesh around another. But in the end I still have to go in and clean it up and refine it. All I did as to give it a rough shape as a starting point. I don't think there's anything wrong with that anymore than using a "canned" pose as a starting point for getting the final pose you want.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    That is the freedom of a forum Earl.
    Everybody can have his/her own opinion.

    When I look at what is often being sold? ( Talking in general here )
    => All I can often say is ; "Shrinkwrap abused" because real life clothing does not behave like that.. LOL.