Pauline and G3F: Adventures in Shrink Wrapping
I am weary of commenting, but thought it might be prudent here.
I hate Daz3D, everyone knows this (few know the real reasons why - out of respect for what Nerd3D and Smith Micro are trying to do here I will not post them openly here).
That being said - I would have to generally agree F_Verbass and CuiBono in terms of legal standing. While there may be significant differences - the last Daz3D Eula I read from a product of theirs I had purchased, which was in 2012 granted, specifically forbid shrink wrapping or similar methods for use as creating competing products. Worse, there is now this thread, which likely Daz3d's little spies have already made them aware of in the event you make your product public, where you admit to using Daz's product.
Personally, do I think you could prevail in such a legal claim? That depends, how deep are your pockets for a good attorney and motions and counter motions? I would love to see more morphs available for Poser's base figures, and I will admit, given how often Daz3D has stuck it too others, I like the idea of someone sticking it to them.
Keep in mind, Daz3D loves to try to throw it's weight around. They love to send C&D and take down letters. So, be prepared for this possibility if you do proceed.
Sigh. All from a fun little project.
@RobZhena I wouldn't necessarily lose heart yet. You could always contact someone at Daz3D and get an official statement/position on this - who knows, they may say it's ok (stranger things have happened), or give you some steps on how to make it ok. If they do, I urge you to keep a copy of that though, for future reference if needed.
CuiBono last edited by
@RobZhena Sympathize. But maybe it's just God's way of saying: so learn to sculpt already! The means of production have never been cheaper or easier to use.
I have been watching this thread and thought I would should post this here.
Here is a morph I made, and it resembles Victoria 7.
Somewhat anyway, lol.
This is one of the first morphs I made for Victoria 3, and that was long before Victoria 4 was even made..
When it comes to making figure morphs, sooner or later there will be some that resemble others.
@shvrdavid There's a similar thread to this over at Hivewire. I posted pretty much the same thought there. You can sculpt or manually manip the verts into any shape you want. Even if you came up with what looks like an exact duplicate of V7, it would still be an original work. As for the shape, DAZ can't copyright the shape of the human body.
@eclark1849 As for the shape, DAZ can't copyright the shape of the human body.
That's not 100% correct all the time thou. They can't copyright it, but in some cases it can be trademarked.
If Victoria 7 is a digital scan of a real person, (not saying it is thou) it could fall under Personality Rights, and can be trademarked. Similar to the Digital Clone Anna Goddard set for Victoria 3, any unlicensed likeness of it could be a violation of that trademark.
Yeah, were splitting hairs here, but trademarks can be upheld in that case.
@shvrdavid It would have to be something very specific to a particular person though, like a smile, or the likeness of a person. In general, the shape of the human body isn't specific to any one person. Add to that the fact that V7 is basically just a morph. That said though you CAN trademark a particular style, like a toon, or anime style. For example, let's say DAZ put out a G3 morph in the shape of Jessica Rabbit. The producers of Who Framed Roger Rabbit might be able to convince a jury that that morph was an infringement on their copyright. The problem is, Jessica Rabbit, herself, is a blatant infringement of the actress Mae West's style and likeness.
Shrinkwrapping has killed more figures and clothing then all other tools combined.
When taking a look at how some release clothing?
=> My fist comment always is : Hey why did you not simply paint the clothing on the figures texture?
=> That is NOT how clothing behaves. (Certainly between the breasts.)
It is unbelievable what some try to shrinkwrap...... and sell.
Sure, shrinkwrapping has its use, but we see it more in "abuse" then "use".
@vilters I don't think shrinkwrapping is anymore of a figure killer than using a pattern to create clothes or buying a bolt of cloth rather than going out and making the cloth yourself. Is it a short cut? Sure. For that matter, so is Cross Dresser, Wardrobe Wizard and Poser's Fitting Room.
Oh yes it is. Shrinkwrapping gives you far less control. It shrinkwraps mostly where it is not needed. :-)
The other tools give you far more control over the flow of the mesh.
And the fitting room has more then enough tools to "counter" the shrinkwrapping in places where it is not needed. LOL.
eclark1849 last edited by eclark1849
@vilters Well, again, I disagree. Shrinkwrapping is just a tool. For example, I'm using it right now to shape one mesh around another. But in the end I still have to go in and clean it up and refine it. All I did as to give it a rough shape as a starting point. I don't think there's anything wrong with that anymore than using a "canned" pose as a starting point for getting the final pose you want.
That is the freedom of a forum Earl.
Everybody can have his/her own opinion.
When I look at what is often being sold? ( Talking in general here )
=> All I can often say is ; "Shrinkwrap abused" because real life clothing does not behave like that.. LOL.
I am please to introduce Paulette for Pauline, which I plan to post to the Rendo freebies this weekend. She is 100 percent Pauline, designed using her built-in morphs and those from Lyrra's Pauline Plus. I am deeply grateful to @Glitterati3D, who tested Paulette, identified problems, and taught this neophyte how to edit a CR2 so that a full body morph was set to 1 when placed in the scene. Any remaining problems with the character are my fault alone. Paulette's CR2 requires the Pauline obj and base texture, so you must own a variant of Poser 11.
Rather than cross-post, here is a link to the information at Hivewire3D: Introducing Paulette Freebie.
This is a Superbly render of Paulette.
And this shows Paulette is 100 percent Pauline and has nothing to do with G3F other than drawing on the same comic book heroine proportions of generations of comic artists.
Glitterati3D last edited by
Sweet! Thank you!
willshetterly last edited by
I'm quite new to all this, so apologies if I'm asking a standard noob question, but the discussion here made me curious: would it make sense for someone to create clones for Pauline of Daz characters like V4 and V7 and sell them through DAZ? There are vendors there doing clones for different Daz characters, so I would think they would be open to it.
duanemoody last edited by
- Clones are DS-specific tech and Pauline isn't DS-compatible.
- What you call "V4/V6 clothing compatible," DAZ calls "infringement of figure rigging intellectual property, in violation of the figure's EULA". Clothing can reverse engineer that rigging, but figures cannot.
- Existing clone products are permitted because the donor and target figures are already bundled with DS (i.e., the rigging isn't leaving the ecosystem). Literally the only exception here is the V4->Genesis clone built into DS and that's to keep legacy content inside DS.
willshetterly last edited by
@duanemoody You got me wondering about the legality of dolls that can wear Barbie clothes, and the answer seems to be that if there's a slight variation, it's legit. At least, that's how I interpret the existence of sites that share doll-fitting info like http://quirkyartistloft.blogspot.com/2013/02/cross-brand-doll-clothing-guide.html
But googling that, I saw Mattel and MGA had a horribly long legal battle. One of the things I like least about copyright is that often it's used to squelch legitimate competition—people who can't afford to fight have to give up, even if everyone knows they're in the right. If Daz3d is determined to create a closed shop, they probably wouldn't approve clones by other creators and would throw lawyers at anyone who tried to sell one.