Genesis 8 too poor in polygons ?

  • I would like to know about people that did use DAZ Studio and work on Gen8, or know about it :
    looking at the different character morph products based upon her, that her face looks "rigid".

    It tends, for me at least, that the number of polygons play a roll in this. Is that some of you share this impression ?

  • @barnardino G8 polygon count is no problem at all. Slightly less, than G3, but you won't see it. I don't know, what you mean with "rigid". So, the genesis figures are great, but I personally don't realy like those character set out yet either. But that's not because of the polygon counts, it's more of the nowadays female idole of a plasitic balloon boobed, six packed, ultra skinny Pamela Anderson look alike with inflated lips, that everybody seems to go for. My advise is to get morph packs for G8, even better add your custom morphs to G8 and create your own character. Again: number of polygons is not an issue at all, don't let them tell you that.

  • Ok, it's an impression.

    When i look Gen2, Gen3, Gen8 (i talk essentially about the face).
    I see Gen2 >> Gen 3 > Gen8 in term of 'life', i don't really know how to explain that.

    I found that most Gen2 face characters are more "alive" than G3 and G8, and it's the same impression, between G3 and G8 (with less impact i admit)

    And the only link i see about this is the number of polygons.

  • Poser Ambassadors


    While most like the higher polygon meshes for higher detail, Poser has all the tools to get equivalent results at preview and render time.

    For starters : How to load and work with a lower poly figure?

    • In General Preferences => Set crease angle to 180°.
    • If loading obj files => You can also set the crease angle in the vertex groups parameters palette.
      Enable smoothing and set crease angle to 180° in all vertex groups. => Snarly's free scenefixer can do that automatically for you.

    Secondly, work with one level of SubD on the lower poly figures.

    You can see in detail how to add full body morphs and create and project High Definition morphs to ANY figure using Poser and Blender in this video tutorial I posted on YouTube.

    But start at video one :
    (7 video's in total to date, some on figures, some on the new ground/sky dome that came with Poser11)

    The question : Low or High poly?
    Users that "know how to use the tools" have a certain workflow and poly count becomes less relevant.

    => => The end result depends more on the fingertips and less on the tools used to get there.<= <=

    Bets regards, and have fun using the Poser tools, Tony

  • @barnardino Maybe we should keep things sorted. G8 base figure and characters for the G8 base figure. Do you have a problem with the base figure or characters. Characters are nothing else but morphs for the base figure. so, ther is nothing wrong with the base figure. If you have problems with the characters, then it could be, that there is something about the morphs you dont like or/and the textures and materials, that you don't find convincing. E.g.: Some flat eye-shaders can ruin a character completley.
    It's funny though, I was never good with G1 and G2. None of their character sets ever looked alive to me. That's why I prefered Poser figures in pre-G3 times.

  • I just want to bring up the fact that the number of polygons will probably affect the authenticity of a face. And it's mostly remarkable when you starts to produce different characters, and you see that it's difficult to deviat from characteristics of the base figure face.

    So that between G2 to G8. While the figures get her load of useful updates with evolution, the fact that the number of polygons get lower between G2 -> G8 is visible among the commercial characters you can find around.

    It's just my constatation while "browsing" these characters.

    While DAZ3D tried to keep the number of polygons high enough on G8 to create diversity, i still find that you can see the difference in term of authenticity, versatility on the different characters based on her compared to G2. (G2 being more versatile and authentic).

    That is my impression, am i really the only one to see that ?

  • @masterstroke said in Genesis 8 too poor in polygons ?:

    It's funny though, I was never good with G1 and G2. None of their character sets ever looked alive to me. That's why I prefered Poser figures in pre-G3 times.

    Ok so you feel that G1 - G2 were not convincing, but for example when i look at G2 Monique characters, for me they look very convincing.

    i wonder where is the limit in term of polygons for the "convincing" look alive aspect of a face. I think we can't say there's no 'limit'. Seeing Vitters SubD Tricks and Poser crease angle, we all agree that number of polygons play.

  • Poser Ambassadors


    Oh, if you want to separate "character" from obj file figure?
    The difference is 80% in the texture, not in the obj file , or polygon count.
    Total "character" is a combination of the morph PLUS the texture.

  • @barnardino hard to tell, for I don't have Monique. I just don't see any reason to judge a figure on its polygon count. Subdivisions and HD morphs are working well on those figures. A clever JCM set up makes G3+ figures bend much better than Up to G2 figures. It for sure takes more than a high number of polygons to make a convincing character. BTW: most of the fewer amount of polygons on G8 compared to G3 are told to be in her mouth. 😉

  • Ok, you seems all 2 not convinced about my arguments, so i'm probably wrong ...

    @masterstroke I didn't know where were the difference in polycounts on G8 versus G3. Now if it's only in her mouth. Probably the fact that G8 "just" went out produce this impression on me. Some characters further i will be more convinced.

    I admit there are very convincing G3 characters, but ther are a lot of them where i see V7 in the eyes ! :)

  • @barnardino I agree on the lack of diversty. It seems worse on G8 females. Let's see. G8 is young and maybe they can break the usual pattern.

  • Poser Ambassadors


    You write :
    ""but there are a lot of them where i see V7 in the eyes ! :)""

    Eyes are always more or less the same balls geometry....
    => The only difference being the textures on them.
    => What you see, and what you render??
    => Is textures.

    The mesh is only the coathanger to hang the texture on.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @barnardino No, the Poly-counts are okay for Genesis 8. I have a few "basic's like V8, Olympia, Teens8 , Michael 8". They render in DS just fine. The lack of unique character morphs what is missing here. They all look the same. But this is not Genesis 8 fault. It is because the vendors are out of ideas i guess.

  • Poser Ambassadors


    Yes and no my dear.

    There are so many V4 face morphs, and so many V4 textures out there, but even from a distance one can still clearly see that it's V4. (I take this example because, well, V4 is the most popular Poser figure after all.

    Why? Because there are so few FBM. She's always retained her major body proportions. Few "character" creators create a FBM and the accompanying texture that substantially changes the general shape from head to toe.

    The next question is "why"? => Props and clothing also require the same complete make over and that can become very-very time consuming.

    The same goes for all new figures. => As soon as they become available, content creators start building face morphs, textures, clothing, all around the "default base mesh". Everybody works with the same ingredient.

    • V4 will always be V4.
    • Roxie will always be Roxie.
    • The "G"s, will always be "the G's.
      Ok, there are a few adventures out there, but they are few and far between.

    From the many thousands of V4 morphs? Can you count to 10 for an old lady in her 50-60-70 "s?
    With the accompanying FBM? Shrunk, bend back and neck, crumbled fingers and all?

    Just try to find a 40 year old, that had some children and gained 30 pounds in the process?
    Not even mentioning the lack of races? All are the same European 2 meter tall supermodels on a diet. LOL.

    If you deviate from the main course, you are pretty much on your own. => Less sales, less profit.
    End of story.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony not always. Look Anagord. She has some really badass morphs for the Genesis line and V4. Or Braham.
    Or in the past Syyd . And they do sell good.