How would you Promote Poser?

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Ladonna There's a lot more than just Gnomon., Udemy, Skillshare, Pluralsight (formerly digital tutors), those are just the ones that come to mind. Lots of others.

    Studies are showing that video learning is more effective than written, as it engages the viewer and keeps them interested. The brain is also able to process images something like 60,000 times faster than reading text. Especially for younger generations who aren't interested in spending hours reading boring text, videos keep them engaged in the information.

    And there are many YouTube instructors that earn a good living with their tutorial videos on just about any subject you can think of. But you need a voice and personality for it, and a knack for keeping your audience interested in the material. Good editing skills are also pretty vital.

  • I'm late to this thread, but the best way to promote Poser is by showing how it works in more ways than just output-ing renders (ugh, mangled da Engrish there, sorry).

  • And most important ( for me at least) is the increased robustness. I now dare to play and experiment.

  • @ibr_remote like time-lapses in the style "five minutes render"? Showing not only click-click-click-render but a bit of the tools and tricks too? Probably a good idea.

    @AmbientShade I have exactly opposite problem with most of the video tutorials. Too slow! Good if there are subtitles, so I can add speed... Speaking only about computer subjects though.
    (But I read about 200p/hour in English if it's prose...)

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade Agree, Gnomon was the first which comes in my mind. Lynda is very good also. Udemy, but they get pretty expensive now.
    When the video tuts are well made, they are a great source to learn.
    But to be honest, for Poser does not exist much video tut which you can listen without to have physical pain.
    I had once listen to one, a few years ago, there you did not know if the tutor had asthma , was running before, or maybe had just at this moment some adult fun while making this video.
    He was so heavy breathing , that after 5 minutes I give up.
    There are over you tube some really impressive made tuts out for PS, Substance stuff, Blender. But Poser is missing really on the top list.
    There are some webinars for sure also, but I don't like them.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Best way to show off Poser is to show what can be done. What tools are there, and what options do they offer?

    Here an example;

    This is one of my old freestuff items : "Roxie the Roman" outfit.

    Refitted to Bella in Blender; Merged all vertex groups into one, and removed all double vertex. => Exact, this outfit has only a single vertex group : Hip.

    Imported as obj file into Poser, and brought it into the fitting room over Bella.
    In the fitting room, you have to select all bones required to serve as ghostbones for the single vertex group obj.

    • The helmet needs the head bone
    • The spear needs the lHand bone
    • The sword needs the rHand bone
    • For the boots, I included up to the r and l Toe bones.

    Next you go to the Pose room and conform, but not a lot is happening at that point. LOL.

    Open the Joint editor, end select the "ghostbone" you want to paint the weight/bulge map for, and each time set "hip" as affected actor and paint the weightmap for each in Twist, Side-Side and Bend.
    Work in a logical order.

    • Hip upwards over waist, abdomen up to the head, and from the hip down to the toes.
    • Then out to one side. => rCollar, over rShoulder, over rForearm, to rHand.
    • You only have to do one side, and use the "Figure => Rig Symmetry => to copy the rig to the other side.

    Even in extreme outfits like these, only the sword and spear needed finetuning.

    This is the unrendered and rigged single vertex group outfit conformed to the figure Bella.

    What is more : => You have 3 options now.

    • Either create ALL vertex groups.
    • Or create only the "main" vertex groups => Less manual weightmap painting to be done.
    • Or create only a single vertex group.

    This last option is a good one as it PREVENTS Poser from breaking up the obj into individual and unwelded vertex groups when saving out the outfit to library.

    Have a nice day all, and have fun using the Poser tools.

  • @vilters Tony are you saying that Poser should get rid of the Setup Room all together and let the Fitting Room be Poser's main figure content Room? I'm not saying yay or nay? I'm just asking you to clarify.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here a quick and dirty render of the single vertex group outfit.
    All procedurals, nothing fancy, and PhysicalSurface used.



    The setup room has its advantages if you begin with a bare / new obj from nothing at all.
    ! ! ! ! ! ! !But again, reminder => When exiting the setup room and saving to library, your vertex grouped obj WILL be split into individual and unwelded vertex groups ! ! ! ! !

    (The fitting room does the same thing => Unwelding the vertex groups you feed it! ! ! !

    AFTER a setup or fitting room session, you should ALLWAYS replace the obj file that Poser saved for you with the original welded one. => Keep the cr2, but replace the obj.

    That's why going SINGLE vertex group can be an advantage.

    To create clothing? The fitting room is preferable in my humble opinion.

    I always do the fitting over a figure part in Blender, and only use the fitting room to transfer the bones.
    But that's personal choice.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    One of the best way to promote Poser is to create high quality Content. Free and for sale and use the new Technics.
    Not outdated Poser 5 shadernodes, Deep-mapshadow lights and another old fancy stuff. get the best out of the new Superfly render engine, cycles shader nodes, fitting room and show it.
    Write tutorials .
    Don't be always so negative in the forums . To bash permanently on Poser leads to a self fulfilling prophecy. You just need to repeat it over and over again that Poser is dead and more and more people will leave the ship.

  • I would certainly not!

  • I think they need to promote it with pictures that can be done in just Poser, with included content, rather than postworked stuff. Then they could put the ready to render scenes in the scene library so buyers can immediately get a picture.
    Example, these 2 pics are straight exports, resized and saved for web. Not the greatest (and the pics use content that's not included (Miki 4 plus Biscuit's hair and Kelvin G2 plus clothes but they are Smith Micro figures) which requires extra expense) but are examples of what Poser can do on it's own. These sort of scenes could be included.



    There's nothing worse than getting all excited by some new bit of shiny kit and not being able to get the result (or at least near it) you see on the (virtual) box. Just my opinion.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @raven Outstanding render !!!! Miki looks so gorgeous here.

  • @Ladonna Thanks. I don't play with those figures often but thought 'why not' as I thought about doing a series of portraits and different figures give different looks! :)

  • @raven He looks like an actor I've seen. Just can't think of his name or the show I've seen him on.

  • @raven said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    There's nothing worse than getting all excited by some new bit of shiny kit and not being able to get the result (or at least near it) you see on the (virtual) box. Just my opinion.

    This is something I hope to remedy with simple tuts like this one, but folks also need to understand that Poser is a lot like real life photography, renders can be dull and underexposed, much like a real DSLR camera would do. To get nice vibrant renders, you will have to visit the 'dark room' so to speak, or the modern equivalent: Photoshop, or Gimp. I will provide hints about those too.

  • @Ladonna said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @Miss-B So me. And when English is not your mother language , with Video Tutorials you are really f*****.
    Some have such an horrible slang, you never understand what they want to teach you. Or when they are speaking fast. Not to understand for people outside of the English language community.

    The same for me when the tutorial creator's mother language wasn't English. I had a two-part video tutorial for a really nice sword in Silo, and I was able to do the first part, the pummel and crossguard, but the second part for the sword's blade was impossible to follow, so I just created my own blade similar to one I had already done successfully from another tutorial.

  • @eclark1849
    Actually, if you add access to the "Add Bone" tool in the Fitting Room, along with access to the associated panels, that might actually be all that is needed. The main issue with the Fitting Room is you can't add additional bones in it.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    The last product I made has a video demonstration with it right on the product page here. The idea was to show how easy it is to get decent results out of Superfly, plus the last few minutes deal specifically with processing renders. I also did it because making illustrated PDF's (which I did with previous products) is very time consuming - & to be blunt the financial return for time & money invested is paltry for the stuff I do.

    Feedback would be useful - no purchase necessary :D

  • There are some really good topics in this thread, sorry for not quoting them in my post - It's hard to pick just a few. :)

    TLDR at the bottom, folks! :)

    But, there is a sort of emergent topic, here.

    Poser is a deceptively powerful program. It has a great deal of technological wizardry going on under the hood. One of its strengths is that it is not "constrained", especially when one considers content and the user's freedom to create it.

    However, if one has a great engine that has a huge amount of horsepower, unless you can build the rest of the car and a nice track to run it on, you won't be easily satisfied. (Unless you like staring at engines that stay in their shipping crate.)

    What is "produced" with Poser? What does the user actually "do" with it. In general, the final product is a 2D image. (Why isn't there a 3D Rendering script for a 3D program, anyway? /boggle)

    So, if your target is an end-user that will produce an end-product with your product, what do you "advertise?" You advertise how easy it is to produce an end-product and how great those end-products look, right?

    Advertising how easy and powerful Poser is for the use of producing an end-product with it - SM gets decent good grades for that in what advertising and promotion that I've seen, but it's targeted towards people who inherently understand "technical stuffs." Fair enough.

    Advertising the end-product capabilities Poser can bring to the user - Very limited exposure, here. There are no "end product" promotions worth mentioning other than the cover art for the e-box... And, that is limited.

    So, why is that? I think it's pretty simple, really - SM doesn't "do" content and, with a few exceptions, included content is of the more "basic" variety. From an SM point-of-view, given what has been promoted, this is well within their basic advertising constraints. They don't promise or offer the content as being the main draw, they promise a technically proficient application that will help artists/creators produce the end-product content they desire. That includes, traditionally, artists and creators willing to use extra steps to get their unique, custom, ideas into something that will produce the desired end-product. And, if they need some help along the way, Poser has an included library of products and can incorporate other unique items, as well, fairly easily.

    In contrast, briefly, competition offers "explore and play with our content in a relatively captive setting." The main focus of advertising is, and always has been, "content display."

    There can't be much of an argument that "content" and the "results" generated with it is a critical point of advertising for Poser in regards to certain types of likely "new users." This is a desirable market for Poser and is the one that needs the most shepherding and stewardship in order to yield good purchase results.

    In short, Poser advertises technical capability very well. However, it appears to ignore a critical market segment of users that are extremely interested in "final products" that do not take a large degree of technical proficiency to create. That means that, in order to gain access and to secure this market share, which is critical, since it will never, ever, cease to expand, SM needs to focus more on demonstrating its products "end-product production" capabilities. That means wow-factor 2D renders, great animations, and, unfortunately, SM-generated content, and/or licensed 3'rd party content, that can be included in the product and can be used in promotions.

    Despite its technical capabilities, which savvy users do appreciate, its advertising failings deal with content and end-product issues. It should be no surprise that this is the result of very real shortcomings in this area, largely due to the reliance of third-party producers who have largely rebelled and artists that have been lured/coerced into intimate partnerships outside of the SM pipeline.

    Some unique problems that have to be faced:

    There is, traditionally, no brand stewardship associated with Poser content. There are few restrictions placed upon quality or suitability for Poser-promoted items. This is, of course, due to the fact that Poser is designed, from the ground up, to easily incorporate such things. As a result, such controls are lacking in most markets that cater to those seeking third-party content. What that means is that there are little controls in place that help to ensure an end-user's satisfaction with overall product performance with the large number of third-party content available. That's not A Good Thing for the largest, most desirable, market segment out there - the end-user, recurrent purchaser of content, relatively "3d novice" customer.

    There is no meaningful avenue, right now, available for SM to place any controls over this. That is because SM does not have sufficient control over a large enough, meaningful enough, content providing pipeline. Perhaps they shouldn't expand controls in that area? That could, in the long run, cause more damage to an already vulnerable area.

    Solution: The solution is not a "killer focus figure." That would help, of course, but the end-game solution, in both advertising and in ready-made stock resources, is going to be more of an emphasis on content creation, inclusion, and "end product" advertisement in order to reach a critical customer base that has been avoided. SM partnership with quality third-party content producers needs to be explored in order to take advantage of this unique, relatively inexpensive, third-party contractor relationship where expenses, aside from special commission work, are almost entirely limited to actual sales percentages from a managed marketplace. (ie: Performance-based commissions that benefit the seller and the content creator at the time of sale and don't represent "overhead costs.") Currently controlled point-of-sale markets must be focused on displaying and providing quality content that focuses on "end product production" for the potential consumer. Poser can easily maintain it's "under-the-hood quality" approach in its advertising while expanding its "end product capability" while doing this because the market segment interested in that is capable of understanding the impact of existing Poser advertising.

    TLDR: Poser needs additional focus on advertising the "end-product" that Poser is capable of producing to help capture that expanding market and needs good quality-stewardship over the third-party products that are promoted for use with Poser as well as increasing their availability.

    Note: An important point that must be emphasized and focused on in advertising: Recurrent sales, across the board in all aspects of any business connected to the "teh internets" is fast-becoming a focus topic across the entire world... "Services" are the largest commercial concerns in the world, today. They are the drivers of the modern marketplace and represent the continued flow of "blood" through businesses, today, keeping them alive and thriving.

    SM must focus on this aspect of the available marketplace or it will not have the resources it needs. That means that an emphasis on "services" and "return purchases" has to be explored. And, for SM and Poser, that means that "content purchasing" by its customers is a more critical area of focus than ever before. One customer is easily capable of spending three times the money on purchasing content for Poser than the purchase-price of a new Poser program over the development cycle of each iteration of Poser, itself. That constant revenue stream is vital and must be captured, at least partially. That includes, in my opinion, delaying iterations of Poser if necessary funds to explore this are available. If they are not, then, by all means, produce the next iteration. But, funding must then be set aside to expand this "service" and to capture and, importantly, build this revenue stream.

  • @morkonan The irony of your entire comments is that SM/Poser doesn't even exert quality control over it's own store.

    How is it you think they should branch out of a branch they don't even function in?