How would you Promote Poser?



  • @erogenesis said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    In all her amateurishness, she exposes a lot of the treasures of CGI to broke-ass artists and hobbyists like us, with potentially amazing results. All you need is the determination. All the math is there, the options are there, the renderer is there, both Firefly and Superfly, and much like with painting with oils and acrylic, or making a photo with a digital SLR, you do need to know your stuff. IF you do, Poser will be friendly to you.

    You eloquently summed up 90% of what is wrong with Poser: Lack of experience and proper understanding of Poser by those who bitterly complain about it.



  • @krios

    Personal feelings coming here. Been thinking about this stuff for years. Poser has many uses, and many potential markets, some of which aren't addressed often. We don't encounter them all in the forums, where the primary audience is casual users and content creators.

    Casual users -- The way I see it is, there are many people who are new to 3D that are introduced to it through Poser. These people simply want to make ART, without getting into the nitty gritty. They don't want to get involved in the innards of a CR2 file or dynamic clothing, they want to put together content, clothing, poses, materials, etc to make a pretty picture. Nothing bad about that. But they are a large part of the online Poser community, and are the primary reason that good content is essential for Poser.

    Content creators -- To satisfy the needs of the casual artist/hobbiest, many people graduate to content creation, which is another essential part of Poser. Poser 11 offered a start to more beefy content creation tools, but there is still a way to go. The kinks have to be worked out in scaling zones, animated joint centers, grouping and symmetry issues, OBJ import and export, and other content creation tasks that can make the process go smoother. Content creation is an important and VITAL piece of the Poser universe that actually touches on pretty much every potential market. And content creators, too, have to keep the first group in mind and make the content as easy to use as possible.

    Cartoon artists - Poser's toon shading features address this need pretty well. These features can be used in comic book art as well as cartoon animation.

    Accident/crime reconstruction - This is a potential market that I rarely see mentioned, but to me it's a viable one. Thing is, "realism" in this field is actually a detriment (realism has the potential of swaying a jury and that wouldn't be a good thing in a trial). So you generally only need simple content, primitive figures, simple materials, etc. A lot of Poser's very old content might suffice here. The measurement tools in Poser help create scenes where content can be accurately positioned for scene reconstruction.

    "Mugshots" - this is actually an area of crime where realism would be of benefit. 3D mugshots. A 3D variation of the typical black and white renderings that sketchbook artists work on with people who are witnesses or victims of crimes. Thing is, to accomplish this, you would need one heck of a database of morphs. Every eye shape, nose shape, mouth shape, and feature variation that you can think of. The face room doesn't cut it, because the selection of morphs for these intricate variations isn't there, as are better "pipeline" tools that integrate Poser with higher end apps.

    Education: Poser can be used to introduce children to 3D animation. Also used for creating training materials. Don't want "private areas" for content geared toward minors. Very important.

    Animation (cartoon and previsualization): As mentioned previously, Poser's toon features can help generate toon animations without the need for long rendering times. In the professional industry, where realism is necessary, Poser's not the fastest kid on the block when it comes to acceptible rendering times, so those tasks are usually put into the hands of more robust, higher end modelers or renderers. Still, Poser can be used for previsualization to block out scenes beforehand. Rendering and animation features are essential for this area.

    But because of all these potential markets, Poser is in a situation where it pretty much has to try to be "all things to all people." I can't think of ANY software that meets that criteria. I can't think of how many different modeling and texturing programs I've tried through the years, and still rely on more than one to accomplish certain tasks.

    If you think about things in this manner, that Poser has a wide variety of users who have a wide variety of needs, perhaps the posts regarding Poser can become less "SM bashing" and more "constructive criticism." As the saying goes, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." ;-)



  • @krios said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    You eloquently summed up 90% of what is wrong with Poser: Lack of experience and proper understanding of Poser by those who bitterly complain about it.

    Hehe, well... :D

    @Deecey said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Poser has many uses, and many potential markets, some of which aren't addressed often. We don't encounter them all in the forums, where the primary audience is casual users and content creators.

    Very interesting DC thanks for sharing! I knew about the forensics and mugshots thing, which is also something I wanted to somehow address. PE's face morphs should provide a tonne of options there too. Indeed education will need a genless version of any figure made for Poser, but there could also be options for university / medical lectures and classes. I also want to bring back a little of @larrywberg 's original concept for Poser, namely that it was to be software for drawing artists to use as pose references... in other words lots of artistic poses!

    There is one category of artists that you haven't specified there, maybe I missed it as part of one category there, I'm not sure of their size but I think they might be fairly sizable, probably along the same size as the cartoon artists you mention, if not larger. That is of the professional artist / comic creator. Many of them are obviously erotica artists, and I know of at least 40/50 of them over at Renderotica and Affect3D. Some of them are very successful and make serious cash with their comics and picture series. Blackadder, Epoch, Skatingjesus, KristinF, Miro, etc. Before I started with Lali's Bits, I lived off comics and it was a fairly decent lifestyle. I hope to go back there after PE because its a lot of fun. I also want to make mainstream comics using Poser and I think that's something that not many people yet do. I'm secretly hoping to start off a trend because I don't think many people in the 3D art world know of Poser's potential.



  • @erogenesis
    I'm not actually sure if Poser is used in the forensics/reconstruction market. It should be, because I would think that is an excellent potential market for it!

    And yeah, I sort of covered the comic/animation bit, though not as extensively maybe as I should.

    I also know there is an entire industry of erotica out there (hahahaha ... didn't go there! LOL)



  • @Deecey said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @erogenesis
    I'm not actually sure if Poser is used in the forensics/reconstruction market. It should be, because I would think that is an excellent potential market for it!

    And yeah, I sort of covered the comic/animation bit, though not as extensively maybe as I should.

    I also know there is an entire industry of erotica out there (hahahaha ... didn't go there! LOL)

    hehe ;)

    there is a dude on this forum I think that actually does forensic art with Poser, or was it on Rotica? But I know there are a few that use it. Poser also get used a LOT for instructional videos like supermarket stalls and aircraft safety videos. I've been told to fasten my seat belt by Sydney before.



  • @erogenesis

    Yup, for sure. I think I mentioned in another thread somewhere that I've also seen Poser used on TV shows such as "The Doctors" (to explain medical conditions), Bones (some of the forensic stuff used on the show), and "Jimmy Kimmel live" (a mock baby ultrasound that was hysterical). I've also seen Poser used on websites to teach things like yoga, meditation, exercises, etc.

    So yeah. The point I was trying to make in that long list is, with such a wide variety of uses, the team behind Poser has a lot on their plate. I know. Been there, done that. Got the Poser t-shirt. 8-) There's a lot on that menu, and a lot of different palates to please. As well as a ton of different marketing directions that it can take.



  • @Deecey said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Yup, for sure. I think I mentioned in another thread somewhere that I've also seen Poser used on TV shows such as "The Doctors" (to explain medical conditions), Bones (some of the forensic stuff used on the show), and "Jimmy Kimmel live" (a mock baby ultrasound that was hysterical). I've also seen Poser used on websites to teach things like yoga, meditation, exercises, etc.

    Yoga instructions! Now that's an idea! I think that also focusing on Poser's other customer bases might actually be more effective than just only going down the typical DS/Poser figure craze route... but a figure useful for anything. Hmm, ideas ideas.

    Got the Poser t-shirt.

    I want one!



  • @erogenesis
    Got it so long ago it has long been relegated to the "old and faded" drawer. LOL



  • Talking about promoting Poser. I want to know, how to get discount if buy 10 serial number for this software. Is that Possible ?



  • @momogun
    Not sure.

    Perhaps the "Contact Us" link on this page will lead you somewhere?

    https://support.smithmicro.com/



  • @Deecey said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    If you think about things in this manner, that Poser has a wide variety of users who have a wide variety of needs, perhaps the posts regarding Poser can become less "SM bashing" and more "constructive criticism." As the saying goes, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." ;-)

    I agree with you 100% Deecey. It would be more useful to have Poser fanatics share tips & tricks instead of wishing Poser to be more like that program God uses.



  • @eclark1849 said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    How creative are you? Put together an advertisement to get someone to buy Poser.

    Poser promotion: It's not the tool, it's how you use it!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @krios said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @eclark1849 said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    How creative are you? Put together an advertisement to get someone to buy Poser.

    Poser promotion: It's not the tool, it's how you use it!

    Could not agree more.
    Look, my father could carve with just a simple sharp knife , a block of wood, the most incredible stuff out. A whole little forest with animals inside as example.
    Now give me the most modern sophisticated , expensive carving tool's and you will see just nothing. Except ruined wood and ruined carving tools.
    It is not the tool, it is the user. Some people still render incredible images only in Poser 7 , others are even not able to do this in Vray.



  • @krios Yes, but how would you SHOW that message? Although, after thinking about it, If someone were to ask me to design an ad with that message, I'd depict Poser as a Swiss army knife.



  • @krios said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Poser promotion: It's not the tool, it's how you use it!

    There is truth to this, in the sense that it doesn't matter which software one uses if the composition of an image is bad, or if the lighting set-up of an image is dull, or if the colours chosen for the image confuse rather than emphasise. And on, and on. The person using the tool needs to bring his or her own artistic perspective to the process. But in a competitive marketplace, the tools still need to set themselves apart. One of the things that can be a plus in this industry is upping the baseline output. In other words, if two tools can achieve the same end-result but one gives people a much more pleasing initial result - that's a major plus for that tool.

    I get that this forum is frequented by people who tend to have an above average understanding of what goes on behind the scenes of 3D art. That's what makes it an interesting place to visit and read. But for every person that makes his own figure or outfit, vehicle or landscape, I guess (and it's a guess) there are many more who rely on purchased content to fill their scenes, to populate the image they want to pull from their head and into an image that others can see. Poser can't help people who make dull scenes. But it can help people make their scenes - whatever the merits of said scene - look the best they can. And what's a great way to make people exploit all that Superfly has to offer? Materials! I've noted (or, complained about) this before, but the default set of materials is very sparse - and that's putting it nicely.

    The way this relates to promotion is this: when hobbyists want to make a scene, they want it to look good. The more knowledge or time it takes to make something look good, the fewer people will persevere. That doesn't mean the tool is inadequate, but it does mean it'll fail to retain users. Over time, the number of images made with that tool on popular online outlets drops relative to people using other tools. People who are new to the hobby almost inevitably gravitate to the most popular option.

    A friend of mine works at a food company that routinely pays popular 'opinion leaders' to use their products on online outlets. Think bloggers, young people on YouTube, etc. There are great artists who user Poser. Everyone knows a couple at least. But do their viewers know they've used Poser? Or just that it's 3d art? How about contracting a couple of them from a bunch of different art genres to be a lot more emphatic about noting they've used Poser? Pay them to talk at some length about how they've used one particular (unique to Poser!) feature to make the image. Advertising, product placement - this stuff works, it's why large companies spend huge amounts of money on it. Having an infrequently updated gallery on your own site is nice, but you also need to go out there to where the audience already is.



  • What about:

    Poser: Make your CGI come alive.

    0_1508672031917_Eveline05.jpg



  • @krios said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Poser promotion: It's not the tool, it's how you use it!

    Hehe, I'd leave out the 'Not the tool' part and just say: "How will you use it?" I think we'd want to try and avoid looking like we're making excuses for Poser, because certain people will probably not understand that they might actually need to make an effort to make nice art lol. I'm sure they'll expect the app to do it for them, like certain apps are attempting today. Rather just say something like, "You think you're an artist? Prove it bitch." Or in a bit more of a nicer way:

    Poser: Ready when you are!



  • @erogenesis Great artwork Ero. That's one of the things about your renders that differs from most others that I se here. Your's look like they could have been taken with a camera. Not really talking about the render quality as much as the scene and staging.



  • @erogenesis You might want to fix the pokethrough on her right ankle. Or are those supposed to be holey socks and shoes? <grin>



  • @eclark1849 said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @krios Yes, but how would you SHOW that message? Although, after thinking about it, If someone were to ask me to design an ad with that message, I'd depict Poser as a Swiss army knife.

    Maya and the like might be a Swiss army knife (modeling, animation, VFX), whereas Poser would be more like the carving knife @Ladonna mentioned--very good only at one thing: animation. And of course pictures as well, but that you can do the same exact way with just about any modern 3D program... even Second Life.

    My "tool" analogy, is a very rough and direct personal opinion meant only for us. It would need to be refined because as Ero pointed out, it really means: Those who don't suck can create great things with Poser. Which is not fair to say, because not to "suck" at Poser (at least on a pro level) one would have to have an engineering level of understanding of Python, human anatomy, the inner workings of Poser, animation, lighting, scene composition, rendering... and many of the advanced things Ero and a handful of others talk about: JMCs, custom morphs, and don't get me started with the material room... mind boggling possibilities.

    In other words, Poser is not meant to be a stand alone tool, just as much as it's not meant for a one-man-band. Except maybe for pictures, but Poser can be so much more than that. Imagine the pict Ero posted come to life.

    So how do we show all this without scaring off the uninitiated amateurs, while attracting some pro level bums?
    Do what Blender did: round up a handful of the best Poser specialists and create a short animation worthy of an Academy Award! How else can an animation program be advertised?

    @adosity
    Would be nice to have some case studies: here's what I've done, and here's how I've done it.
    Not only would it show off Poser's capabilities and help spread the word, but would teach a few tricks to the Poser fanatics.