How would you Promote Poser?

  • @krios said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Poser promotion: It's not the tool, it's how you use it!

    There is truth to this, in the sense that it doesn't matter which software one uses if the composition of an image is bad, or if the lighting set-up of an image is dull, or if the colours chosen for the image confuse rather than emphasise. And on, and on. The person using the tool needs to bring his or her own artistic perspective to the process. But in a competitive marketplace, the tools still need to set themselves apart. One of the things that can be a plus in this industry is upping the baseline output. In other words, if two tools can achieve the same end-result but one gives people a much more pleasing initial result - that's a major plus for that tool.

    I get that this forum is frequented by people who tend to have an above average understanding of what goes on behind the scenes of 3D art. That's what makes it an interesting place to visit and read. But for every person that makes his own figure or outfit, vehicle or landscape, I guess (and it's a guess) there are many more who rely on purchased content to fill their scenes, to populate the image they want to pull from their head and into an image that others can see. Poser can't help people who make dull scenes. But it can help people make their scenes - whatever the merits of said scene - look the best they can. And what's a great way to make people exploit all that Superfly has to offer? Materials! I've noted (or, complained about) this before, but the default set of materials is very sparse - and that's putting it nicely.

    The way this relates to promotion is this: when hobbyists want to make a scene, they want it to look good. The more knowledge or time it takes to make something look good, the fewer people will persevere. That doesn't mean the tool is inadequate, but it does mean it'll fail to retain users. Over time, the number of images made with that tool on popular online outlets drops relative to people using other tools. People who are new to the hobby almost inevitably gravitate to the most popular option.

    A friend of mine works at a food company that routinely pays popular 'opinion leaders' to use their products on online outlets. Think bloggers, young people on YouTube, etc. There are great artists who user Poser. Everyone knows a couple at least. But do their viewers know they've used Poser? Or just that it's 3d art? How about contracting a couple of them from a bunch of different art genres to be a lot more emphatic about noting they've used Poser? Pay them to talk at some length about how they've used one particular (unique to Poser!) feature to make the image. Advertising, product placement - this stuff works, it's why large companies spend huge amounts of money on it. Having an infrequently updated gallery on your own site is nice, but you also need to go out there to where the audience already is.

  • What about:

    Poser: Make your CGI come alive.


  • @krios said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Poser promotion: It's not the tool, it's how you use it!

    Hehe, I'd leave out the 'Not the tool' part and just say: "How will you use it?" I think we'd want to try and avoid looking like we're making excuses for Poser, because certain people will probably not understand that they might actually need to make an effort to make nice art lol. I'm sure they'll expect the app to do it for them, like certain apps are attempting today. Rather just say something like, "You think you're an artist? Prove it bitch." Or in a bit more of a nicer way:

    Poser: Ready when you are!

  • @erogenesis Great artwork Ero. That's one of the things about your renders that differs from most others that I se here. Your's look like they could have been taken with a camera. Not really talking about the render quality as much as the scene and staging.

  • @erogenesis You might want to fix the pokethrough on her right ankle. Or are those supposed to be holey socks and shoes? <grin>

  • @eclark1849 said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @krios Yes, but how would you SHOW that message? Although, after thinking about it, If someone were to ask me to design an ad with that message, I'd depict Poser as a Swiss army knife.

    Maya and the like might be a Swiss army knife (modeling, animation, VFX), whereas Poser would be more like the carving knife @Ladonna mentioned--very good only at one thing: animation. And of course pictures as well, but that you can do the same exact way with just about any modern 3D program... even Second Life.

    My "tool" analogy, is a very rough and direct personal opinion meant only for us. It would need to be refined because as Ero pointed out, it really means: Those who don't suck can create great things with Poser. Which is not fair to say, because not to "suck" at Poser (at least on a pro level) one would have to have an engineering level of understanding of Python, human anatomy, the inner workings of Poser, animation, lighting, scene composition, rendering... and many of the advanced things Ero and a handful of others talk about: JMCs, custom morphs, and don't get me started with the material room... mind boggling possibilities.

    In other words, Poser is not meant to be a stand alone tool, just as much as it's not meant for a one-man-band. Except maybe for pictures, but Poser can be so much more than that. Imagine the pict Ero posted come to life.

    So how do we show all this without scaring off the uninitiated amateurs, while attracting some pro level bums?
    Do what Blender did: round up a handful of the best Poser specialists and create a short animation worthy of an Academy Award! How else can an animation program be advertised?

    Would be nice to have some case studies: here's what I've done, and here's how I've done it.
    Not only would it show off Poser's capabilities and help spread the word, but would teach a few tricks to the Poser fanatics.

  • @krios I disagree. No Poser doesn't allow you to actually model, but it does allow you to animate, pose, and render As I've said else where, there are lots of things those three things allow you to do and cover several fields of endeavor. I know a lot of people like to use the old axiom the right tool for the right job. I like to think of Poser like McGyver's swiss army knife. Or Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver. That may not be what it was made for , but in the hands of the right person, it doesn't really matter.

  • @eclark1849
    Animate, pose & render are still just one thing really: you have to pose a character (keyframes) to animate it, and then you have to render it for video editing. And in my book, that's a good thing! It's like having one favorite carving knife--one tool for one purpose. Ever tried carving something with a Swiss army knife that can also open a wine bottle? Ain't saying that it's not possible, heck you might even have a good grip on the oversized handle, but it simply does not compare to an actual carving knife.

    But, if you wanna call Poser the Swiss army knife, what should we call Maya? A tool box? ;]

  • 0_1508726244907_New Poser Director 3D.jpg

    This is a concept I made before P11 came out, and I think the idea behind this might be interesting considering the question on how to promote Poser.

    A little background (but perhaps relevant to this discussion too): Poser seems to have this 'reputation' among the more 'Elite' CGI artists, and what this rep is kind of depends who you ask. But generally its 'bad' or 'amateurish' or just plain pornware. Now we all know that's absolute BS but I can guess we all understand where that all comes from. Poser is one of those apps that has made CGI way more accessible to the layman, and not just because of its price compared to stuff like Maya, but also the UI and workflow and features. Its all pretty straight forward. Blender might be totally free, but its probably easier to learn to fly the Space Shuttle than to figure out Blender. So the bad rep could basically be elitists being annoyed that their art is now more accessible to less experienced folk, with all the amateur CGI that resulted from it, like how the traditional film photographers felt when digital photography became more popular (the accessibility, and threatening the art form).

    Now I'm not in the world suggesting they should do this, but I entertained the idea for a bit and thought, if they were to ditch the name Poser (because of the rep) like they did with Manga Studio (Clip Studio Pro), what would be a better name then? Again, I'm not saying that they should do it, re-branding is very risky, and Poser is a fine name and honestly I couldn't give a crap about the reputation now, but the exercise did help me visualize better what I see Poser as being. Well, its actually a kind of mini hollywood, a stage. You get your actors, load your props, tell them to do stuff at certain times. Its virtual theater basically. You're a director.

    Now you can also do this with Maya and Max and Blender of course, to varying degrees, but most of those apps also create content, do simulations, make very complex rigs. If you see how Poser is set up, it not really about creating content, is way more focused on actually bringing content to life, by manipulating it with poses, materials, or even the rigs. Its a podium, theater, a stage.

    Anyway, I'm just babbling, I thought it might be fun to share that.

    Off to bed!

  • @eclark1849 said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @erogenesis Great artwork Ero. That's one of the things about your renders that differs from most others that I se here. Your's look like they could have been taken with a camera. Not really talking about the render quality as much as the scene and staging.

    hehe cheers Earl!

    @Glitterati3D said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @erogenesis You might want to fix the pokethrough on her right ankle. Or are those supposed to be holey socks and shoes? <grin>

    huh, where? Are you sure you're seeing a poke-through?

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis Adobe already has Director 3D

  • @erogenesis said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    huh, where? Are you sure you're seeing a poke-through?

    Her right ankle. There's no sock where the shoes meets the sock.

  • @erogenesis I've always liked this image for it's lighting and that's when I dared to increase my sunlight to even 200% and it made a huge difference!

    @Glitterati3D I think you're confusing the pink from the inner flap of the shoe as skin. If you look closely that same pink is at the bottom of the shoe and on the other foot as well although not as visible.

  • @Glitterati3D said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @morkonan The irony of your entire comments is that SM/Poser doesn't even exert quality control over it's own store.

    How is it you think they should branch out of a branch they don't even function in?

    I pointed out, I thought, that they need to exert quality control over their own store. They won't have the pressure to bear to exert it elsewhere until they've gained more of share, but they should consider learning from their own store experience and then working with resellers and vendors to set some minimum "guidelines" to at least ensure some level of base-acceptable quality.

    Honestly, they should have a whole write-up on this with all of their recommendations for the most popular product types. They should offer a professional level "packer" program for vendors, either "free" when that person first offers a product for sale at their store or a low-price version available at their store. It should have templates for everything, including descriptions, instructions, and basic user licensing agreements.

    But... no. Why? Because, the attitude is obviously "...nothing is important except the next release and we don't care about other monies..."

    I'm being disingenuous, I know, and I'm sure they care. Probably. They're just not doing what I think a forward moving company with such a large exposure in this market should be doing. Or, for any company in any market, for that matter...

    I'm sure they have their own concerns and I do not know what those are, so I'm not well-informed and all my opinions and suggestions mean jack-squat to them.

    BUT, darnit, they're worth a heck of a lot more than SM is paying me to post them. :)

  • @morkonan That's crazy, though. You're asking a company to interfere in another's company's livelihood and not only is that silly in THIS market (from a company that exerts no quality control over it's own store) but in any market.

    A comparison would be Microsoft exerting control over Nvidia because their cards go inside a MS based operating system.

  • @krios Don't care what you call Maya, I don't own it, or use it, and I'm not interested in promoting it.

  • @Glitterati3D said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    Her right ankle. There's no sock where the shoes meets the sock.

    Can't say I can see it. I think @kalypso is right, its part of the shoe. It wouldn't have surprised me though, poke-throughs are sneaky buggers.

    @kalypso said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @erogenesis I've always liked this image for it's lighting and that's when I dared to increase my sunlight to even 200% and it made a huge difference!

    Hehehe thanks k. Would you believe that I have it at 400% there?

    @AmbientShade said in How would you Promote Poser?:

    @erogenesis Adobe already has Director 3D

    lol they do? I thought I had googled that name back then, apparently not well enough. But yeah like I said, 'Poser' is just fine. It was just something I thought up a year ago.

  • @Glitterati3D
    I'm missing something here. Morkonan is talking about Content Paradise, right? If so, that's part of SM as well, not another company.

  • @Deecey No, he's talking about outside SM as well. Read carefully.

    And, even if you leave out the vendors scattered about, SM doesn't even follow conventions. The object files aren't saved in the Geometries folder, clothing as props, etc., etc., etc.

    But they also have no business telling someone like Renderosity how to run their business.

  • @erogenesis You may be right, but with the blowout on her ankle, it's hard to tell. I presumed I was seeing ankle flesh there. That's what it looks like to me.