Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?



  • @fbs7 said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    How exactly is that different to adding extra bones to influence only the hair ends?

    ...in that you wouldn't have to animate the hair manually. Let Poser figure it out.



  • @krios said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    @fbs7 said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    How exactly is that different to adding extra bones to influence only the hair ends?

    ...in that you wouldn't have to animate the hair manually. Let Poser figure it out.

    But bullet physics won't do that... from what I understood from his video, you still have to animate the collision targets in order to move the hair, which is pretty much the same thing as animating a bone?



  • @fbs7 said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    But bullet physics won't do that... from what I understood from his video, you still have to animate the collision targets in order to move the hair, which is pretty much the same thing as animating a bone?

    Doesn't look like it... have a look around 44:00, he's moving her hips and the hair is moving on its own. He even mentions the fact that in season 1 they animated the hair by hand. Whereas in season 2, the hair, and the boobs, are bullet physics.



  • Hello all. This is my first ever post here and I need to say at the outset that I'm a novice Poser user but am enjoying the program very much.

    I watched the relevant part of the video several times and looked at the Poser manual to try to figure out what's going on.

    I may well be wrong but I believe that he has set up a few objects as constraints for the physics simulation of the hair. These cause areas (painted vertices) of the hair mesh to behave during the simulation as though fixed to the objects (and governed by them).

    He goes on to move the 'Y transform' dial up and down to show the simulation in real time. Notice how he ticks the 'Live Simulation' box of the Bullet Physics window. From reading the manual this allows a preview of the simulation.

    In other words, he is showing a preview of how the simulation would work when the figure is moved up and down after setting up the constraints.

    What I find puzzling is how a preview can be done before the simulation has been calculated but the manual seems to say that this is the case - I haven't tried.

    Two more things to say:

    1 I could very well be totally wrong!

    2 The hair would most likely need to be a single mesh. Hair made of 'ribbons' would need to be set up so that all the ribbons are fixed at their roots.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Maybe - the prop/primitive is being used in the rig like a body handle tied to Bullet; the vertex map defines the area of the mesh that Bullet affects; so when the rest of the rig is animated the handle also moves & therefore the physics come free.

    @grimhilda - welcome & I've cross-posted ;)

    The live preview does demonstrate how fast Bullet can be!



  • Thanks for the welcome, Caisson.

    There's a great deal about Poser that I know nothing about - bone handles, joint morphs ... these are probably the wrong terms ... but I did make a lot of attempts to use Bullet Physics in Carrara where the implementation has fewer features than Poser's. So I'm only guessing.

    Also, I should have said that he moves the Y Transform dial of the FIGURE'S HIP up and down (with the Live Simulation box ticked).


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Sounds like a good guess though. There's still a great deal I know nothing about in Poser, & I've been using it for years ;)



  • I think I also cross-posted as I was writing my first comment here! As a newcomer I need to wait 300 seconds apparently between my first few posts but I will also be retiring for the night shortly!

    Anyway, I think he is showing a few things in his set-up: Some of the objects may be there for collision only (he shows a kind of flattened cube attached (?) to the figure's back.

    Other objects may be intended for animation - he shows how he can rotate them (the hair bangs and garter thing) and the meshes they are constrained to respond (in real time with the box ticked). So I guess he will key-frame animate those objects and the collision object(s) - on the figure's back, for example will play their part in the result. Presumably once he has done that he should be able to run the proper simulation for his animation.

    I'm only still guessing!

    I mentioned that I'm a Poser novice. I'm ashamed to add that I started with Poser 9 and bought versions 10, 2014 Pro and now 11 Pro. But I've only scratched the surface - until recently I've mostly let the Program gather dust!



  • I'm still learning how to do all this stuff. (who isn't?) It looks like what he did was to set up the hair as soft dynamics and a box as ridged dynamics and used an object constraint to link the 2 so the movement of the box controlled the movement of the hair. (chapter 25 in the manual) The part I haven't figured out is how he made the box move like he did.



  • I just did a test of that with TY2 hair.

    Go to setup, select body (not another bone), add a bone anywhere near say the front bangs, call it frontBangs, don't add any vertices (otherwise you'll lose the morphs). Go back to posing room.

    Then add a box prop, then select TY2 hair, select frontBangs, Object / Replace Body Part with prop, select that box.

    Now go to Joint Editor, Add Body Part affected by this joint, add whatever body part you want controlled by the box; in TY2 hair, that's the Head. Add it, now the box rotations control the front bang rotations.

    Now comes the boring part - the front bang rotations will be of course all out of whack. So set a rotation of say rotX = -60 degrees. Go to Joint Editor, select X Rotation, Add / Weight Map, mode = Replace, then click in the weight map painter icon, go and paint the weight map until the front bang does a nice X rotation. Then set rotX = 0.

    Now set roty = -60 degrees, go to Joint Editor, select Y Rotation, etc..., repeat the same. Then repeat again for the Y rotation. Now the front bang rotations will follow the box.

    It's fully feasible, but very boring and you have to adjust 3 weight maps for each of these control props. So, one at front, one at left, one at right, one at rear, you gotta set 12 weight maps... But if you intend to reuse the hair it should be a fine investment.



  • @fbs7 said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    It's fully feasible, but very boring and you have to adjust 3 weight maps for each of these control props. So, one at front, one at left, one at right, one at rear, you gotta set 12 weight maps... But if you intend to reuse the hair it should be a fine investment.

    Since most of us are visual artists, it would be nice to see a tutorial of this, or at least a few images to demonstrate your workflow.



  • @krios said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    @fbs7 said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    It's fully feasible, but very boring and you have to adjust 3 weight maps for each of these control props. So, one at front, one at left, one at right, one at rear, you gotta set 12 weight maps... But if you intend to reuse the hair it should be a fine investment.

    Since most of us are visual artists, it would be nice to see a tutorial of this, or at least a few images to demonstrate your workflow.

    Sure, let me get some screenshots.



  • Any prop or conforming hair will do. This is a prop, old Alice Hair from my hero Kozaburo on even older Judy from P5:

    0_1511051337665_hair1.png

    First change from prop to Figure. Click in the hair, Object / Change Parent, select Universe (to avoid messing with Judy), go to Setup Room, get warning "Your current prop will be converted to a figure. This action is not undoable. Do you want to continue?". Yah-yah-yah. Once in Setup room, select camera / From Front. Now the thing is a figure with no bones; click in the Bone tool:

    0_1511051697463_hair2.png

    Draw a bone anywhere; it won't be used for anything; rename it to "head" on name on top right; then click on Select tool, select that bone, click in bone tool, draw another bone anywhere; it won't be used for anything either; set that bone name as "head2". Red arrow is head, green arrow is head2; be sure head2 is under head in the hierarchy window:

    0_1511052143010_hair3.png

    Now, this is important, click on the Select Tool again, click on head bone, be sure it's selected (it shows highlighted in the hierarchy window), click in Bone tool again, draw one more bone, name it "left"; then be sure to select head bone again, click in Bone tool, draw another bone, name it "right"; then be sure to select head bone again, click Bone tool, draw another bone, name it "left". Positioning doesn't need to be precise, it can be adjusted later. Red arrow is right, green arrow is front, blue arrow is left. Be sure that front/right/left are under "head":

    0_1511052997591_hair4.png



  • Now change to left camera; all bones will be one on top of the other, but that's no problem; click the Translate tool, then move the front bone to the front hair, left and right bones to the left/right hairs (they will seem to be one on top of the other, that's ok); then click the Select tool, select the Head bone, then draw another bone at the rear, name it "rear". Green is front, read is head, blue is left and right, orange is rear:

    0_1511053516928_hair5.png

    Now switch back to the Front camera, verify that the rear bone is in the middle of the hair; should look like this:

    0_1511053709322_hair6.png

    Don't assign any faces to any of the new bones. Now switch to the Pose room; it will warn "There are polygons not belonging to a bone...etc..."; yah-yah, ignore that. Now add 4 cubes, size and position them as you want. This is from the back:

    0_1511054252106_hair7.png

    and from the left:

    0_1511054325831_hair8.png

    Now, click the hair, select Body Part / front, then Object / Replace Body Part with Prop, then select the cube that is at the front. Repeat the same for rear, left and right. The hair now should still look the same.

    Now when you click in the boxes it will say front/left/right/rear instead of "box", "box_1", etc...; now select front, rotate it on X; it will not affect the hair, and the box will deform; that's ok, we'll fix that:

    0_1511055169682_hair9.png



  • Now the boring part. Select front, select Window / Joint Editor, select xrotate in the dropdown, under Fallout Zones click Add / Add Weight Map, change mode to Replace. Now it should look like this:

    0_1511055412678_hair10.png

    don't mind the freaky green and red lines; that's for the old Poser skinning (and never worked well), and are irrelevant under weight map skinning. Now click Affected Actor on top right, and select the hair body parts that you want influenced by this one (for a morphing prop made figure, that's xxx_SETUP; for conforming hair getting these handles that's the existing body parts). Now we paint. Click in the paint icon just to the right of Replace, then paint the vertices to have them X-rotate as you wish. That involves using Add / Subtract / Smooth / Mirror several times until that hair part rotates as you want - that's why you set the rotation angle already, that makes seeing the result of the painting immediate. In my case I did this:

    0_1511056101568_hair11.png

    Now, messing with the green and red lines will have no effect, but the center point between them will. That's the center of rotation of the hair, so may want to move it around (with camera on LEFT view!!!!!!!) to adjust where the hair rotates about. Thats it, we're done for front hair, X rotation. Now repeat the same for Y and Z rotations on front hair, and repeat the same for X, Y and Z rotations for the left, right and rear hairs -- a total of 12 weight maps to paint.

    Now we don't want to mess left/right/rear as we drag front around, and they will be impacted because all of them are chained to the head (so dragging front will drag the head, which will also drag left/right/rear). So click in Chain Break tool, and click the 4 boxes so they are now all unchained:

    0_1511056759493_hair12.png

    That's it. Now if you click in the Rotate tool and drag the boxes around, the hair will be rotated with them:

    0_1511056987347_hair13.png

    0_1511057083136_hair14.png



  • By the way, this is EXACTLY the same thing you would do with a weight-mapped magnet, and the magnet has the advantage that you only set 1 weight map (instead of 3), and you can also scale and translate the hair parts - -- a bone can only rotate, not translate (as bones are rigid). So I almost always use a magnet for this, to avoid spending a lot of time with 3 weight maps, although the bone approach has the advantage of giving a big visible handle there to animate more easily.

    But, bones have an advantage that they chain, while magnets don't. So that's very very useful for long hair. In one of my long hairs I added 3 bones at the rear, to have control of how the hair flows; one would go crazy trying to do the same with 3 magnets, as the magnets are not a skeleton. That's very effective for long pony tails, and for long braided hair too (I once saw a hair with a waist-long rear braid that has like 20 bones on it, it was amazing, you could make a figure 8 with that long braid; I forgot the name of that hair).



  • Oh, and last note... same thing works exactly the same for animating the ends of skirts. Even if a skirt is conforming, you can add a flowing effect at the hem by adding these bones.



  • @fbs7

    You sir are a god send.
    I'm really considering moving from Daz3D to Poser, if not at least trying to mix it into pipeline, because of this.



  • @fbs7 Vairesh's Cytherea Hair, perhaps?

    0_1511085561617_Braid Med.png0_1511085624701_Braid Long.png 0_1511085662563_Xylia Fringe.png I parented two of the Cytherea Braids to April's Xylia Hair in the last thumbnail.



  • @anomalaus said in Anyone has an idea how Monty managed to physics like this?:

    @fbs7 Vairesh's Cytherea Hair, perhaps?

    That's it! I lost that hair long time ago in one of them Poser reinstalls. Pity, it is a very beautiful hair.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to Graphics Forum was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.