Content Creation For Poser


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    @eclark1849

    AutoGroup Editor. I still use it, have been for years.

    link text


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Hi Earl,
    Vertex grouping is simple-simple in Blender using the temporary material zone trick I use all the time. (create "fake" material zones, convert those to vertex groups, delete the "fake" mat zones and create the good ones.)

    I will make a video ASAP as soon as I find the time over the next couple of days.

    Including the "fix" to get a good quality clothing obj AFTER you saved the clothing to library.
    Because whatever tool you used to create the vertex groups, the biggest issue always comes AFTER the clothing was saved to library.
    => See my video4 in the Poser2Blender2Poser series.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Or you could just use Poser's grouping tool and export that. As long as it's not rigged then all your groups will remain welded.


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    @AmbientShade
    Correct , but the grouping tool has its limitations in that it is very hard to see what you are doing in a complicated mesh, and you will break the obj file when you rig and save it anyway.

    That "easy" fix will be the most important part of the video for most.

    Required tools:

    • Blender (or equivalent) to build the clothing obj, the vertex groups and the mat zones.
    • Poser to rig the clothing and save to Library (does not matter if you use the setup- or the fitting room as both use the same code)
    • The fix => no special tool required at all


  • Thanks, Deecey. I bought it last night and will give it a try tonight.

    I never use the Grouping tool except when I'm in the Cloth Room or Hair Room. Otherwise, it's useless to me.

    Tony, Yes I can and usually do group in Blender, but it's tedious and mistake prone, hence what happened tonight.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849

    Yeah it's my "go to" for grouping. No auto grouping is perfect, you'll have a little cleanup but it's a lot easier to clean up in this vs the group editor.

    What I like about it -

    1. Groups are shown in different colors so you can see the distribution more easily. The polys can be displayed either solid, or in wireframe so you can see the underlying model.
    2. You can work in symmetry mode, making it easier to group symmetrical models. Selects symmetrically, then you right click and assign "left side" to the left body part and "right side" to the right body part.

    There's a tutorial in the Help file if you need a quick start walkthrough.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849

    Ja Earl? ?
    We are talking about creating vertex groups but. . . . You do not need them at all.

    You can build a singe mesh, with a single vertex group, transfer the rig in the setup- or fitting room, and rig it using the ghost bones.

    Vertex groups, while handy, are basically not required because ghost-bones rigging and finetuning the bends using the Joint-editor is also a possibility.

    For a "shirt only", I would create a single mesh with a single vertex group "chest", and rig using the ghostbone system.

    For a skirt or pants, I would create a single mesh and a single "hip" vertex group, and again, rig them using the transferred ghostbones.

    Unfortunately, what you "win" by not having to create the vertex groups, you "loose" in finetuning the rig because the rigging part becomes more complicated.

    Sometimes creating the vertex groups is fastest, sometimes the ghost-bone system is fastest.

    For a fully symmetrical "shirt only"? The ghostbone system is fastest. (no vertex groups) and only a few bones and bends to finetune.

    Pfff, so little time, so many video's to make. :-(



  • @vilters Yeah, I don't know how to rig ghost bones. I'm not really sure what a Ghost bone even is.


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    @eclark1849 Q
    Quick replay before leaving the house this PM.
    A ghostbone is a bone that has no specific vertex group attached to it.

    Example : Build a skirt, and assign all polygons to a single vertex group "hip".

    Transfer all the bones required in the fitting room.
    Hip, downwards up to and including the shins.

    Back in the pose room, you have all the bones, but only a "single hip vertex group". Nothing moves when conforming.

    Then select a joint, open the Joint editor, and goto the bend you want to paint the weightmap for, and set "hip" as active actor.

    Basically, you are painting the complete rig using only the hip group..

    Work in a logical way out of the "main" vertex group : The hip in this case.
    Fist paint all joints for the hip, then the thigh, then the shins.

    Sounds complicated, but is dead simple.


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    @vilters For clothing I've always found the grouping tool to be much faster and easier for setting up groups and mat zones, and especially since it was overhauled in P10. I used it to group 95% of Venus and Orion. Even when I had to change, add or remove a group. You can mirror groups and rename them much faster than in Blender, and select by material or by group. The only issue I had was when getting into tight areas like inside eyes and mouth. I did use blender for that, only because Poser has no way of pivoting the camera around selected polys. Maybe a script could be devised for that.

    But to each their own.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Hi Earl, is this a good dress to make the vertex groups creation tutorial video in the Poser2Blender2Poser series?
    0_1510846116700_Vertex-groups-dress.jpg
    I made it rather "close fitting" for test and demo purposes.
    Will be on the YouTube channel before the end of this week.



  • @richard60 said in Content Creation For Poser:

    C) Include body part names in polygon an groups creates an Object file that has all the same number of vertexes and faces in the same order as the object file I made it from.

    So my question is do you have an example of where Poser will not create a properly welded object from an figure that is exported in the fashion I said above? The way I see it, it should be easy enough for the Programmers to add the option to create a figure using the export options as I listed.

    If you include "C", it "should" break the object up in to "groups" but remove its traditionally added boundary vertices when choosing the "A" function. In short - If you're trying to export a contiguous mesh, don't choose the "include body part names..."

    Note: It may be that certain 3D programs can interpret the .obj format to have welded "groups." I'm on a different puter, so can't check, but I traditionally only choose "A" and am sure to uncheck "C" because it causes unwelded groups. (or can)

    A note on Poser's "welding" option - It will usually do just fine. But, it can have issues with high-density meshes or irregular geometry. It is also unreliable for objects with intersecting geometry. Poser does always preserve the mapping, though, no matter what it does to the geometry on export.



  • @eclark1849 said in Content Creation For Poser:

    @vilters Yeah, I don't know how to rig ghost bones. I'm not really sure what a Ghost bone even is.

    In short: A "Ghost Bone" is a bone that doesn't have any geometry group assigned to it. (Traditionally speaking) It's used to take advantage of the opportunity to include extra controls. In Poser, since bones can effect rotational deforms in a parent-child relationship (bones/groups right next to them) they're used to fine-tune the deforms of conformed rigging moving with the target figure.

    For most uses, a ghost bone sprouts from a neighboring parent bone and is used in clothing to add extra control to how the parent bone's rotations effect deforms in the conformed clothing.

    To create a "ghost bone" all one has to do is, in the Setup Room, highlight the "parent bone" you want the ghost bone (remember - It has no named group in the geometry assigned to its name) to effect or branch off from and then, using the Bone Creation tool, "draw" your ghost bone. (Make very sure what you're selecting and what tool icons you're using, as this operation can get a bit tricky. PhilC has a series on bone's/figure creation on youtube, here's a link to get you started, not sure which vid he details the process in:

    ))

    Once you have your ghost bone created, Poser will set up a default rigging for it that will effect its neighboring parent that has geometry assigned to it.

    Note: Some products out there have entire figure rigs assigned to them, mostly hastily rigged products created in the Setup Room with a one-click process. However, some will have multiple ghost-bones from, let's say, the head, where the geometry of a conforming "hat" is, all the way to the primary rig focus, usually the "hip." What purpose do these multiple bones serve? While Poser's native rigging will not span deformations across any groups other than "neighboring" ones, the same is not true for "scaling." That's a rigging thing, not a deformer thing, so, for instance, a conforming hat that has all rigging from the head to the hip, even if it's not needed for the single-grouped geometry assigned to the "head" bone, will conform very well with "scaled" figures, especially those that have the dreaded "morphforms" being used in them. Since primary figure scaling evolves from the focus bone, usually the "hip", the conformed figure will also immediately adopt that scaling, too. Ever scale a figure with conformed hair and that hair doesn't scale with it? Well, there ya go - Since it doesn't know the overall figure scale hasn't changed, because it doesn't have a conformed "hip" "ghost bone", it stays at its original scale. Add "ghost bones" that are, in fact, the same name as the target figure all the way down to the "hip" and, walla, insta-conforming-scaling-hair.

    BUT, there's a catch - During rotations as the user moves the figure, Poser is having to move two sets of bones and that slows things down a little bit. You'll notice it with any conformed item. Choosing "CPU Assisted... whatsits" (joint rotation?) will help that. However, that can, in my experience, cause some instability on certain systems.

    PS - Tried to break the auto-embed youtube thingie, since it's not the focus of my post, but couldn't find an immediately accessible control to break that.



  • Okay, let's say I have a Dress, or for this instance a jacket, and it is properly grouped. BUT, I want the jacket to be a hybrid, not fully conforming. From, say the chest down the jacket should be dynamic. How would I keep the jacket fully welded at the groups seams?
    0_1511365832207_1510481902188-cheongsam.png



  • @eclark1849 In weight mapped figures, you don't need separate "ghost bones" like you did for spherical rigging.

    So, for instance, on your jacket to make it a hybrid from the chest down, group ONLY to the chest - all the polygons below the chest are grouped to the chest. Do NOT include other groups below the chest.

    Then, when rigging, add the abdomen, hip, pelvis, and thigh bones. They BECOME ghost bones (no geometry associated with them) which you can still rig into the jacket. But, because there are no groups to break, the jacket can be simmed in the cloth room from the chest down - becoming a hybrid piece of clothing. The user simply clothifies the Chest.

    You will have to associate the bones after the abdomen to the chest with Affected Actor in the joint editor because Poser can only affect CHILDREN bones, not grandchildren bones. So the parent has to become the Chest of all the bones below it except the one bone immediately below the chest because it already HAS a valid parent/child relationship to the Chest.



  • @Glitterati3D Thanks Traci.



  • @eclark1849 You're welcome.

    If I may, though, I'd like to suggest you group to the hip at least and allow the hip to be the controlling factor in the cloth room.

    I say this because without the hip group, morph transfers to the clothing are going to be very problematic. So, if you intend the jacket to contain Dusk morphs, you need the hip group or you will have to create each morph below the chest individually in a modeler.

    Save yourself some work and group to the hip, at least.



  • @eclark1849 No, didn't say that. I said that we don't SEE them, but that's all we model. Not the same things, at all. The order of ranking from least to most important is skin - muscle- bones. Skin isn't modeled except as an afterthought, and muscles can never be correct because they can't span bones (an impossibility).


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I see lots of answers about how to make simple things incredibly complicated.

    Build clothing => vertex group "properly" => rig "properly" => then a very-very easy SIMPLE step:

    • Save to library an use the cr2 Poser saved for you but Delete the obj file Poser saved for you, and replace it with the good one.
      (or edit the cr2 to pint to the good one.)
      (or rename the good obj to the name you used in Poser)
      => It is all in Video 4 in the Poser2Blender2Poser YouTube series. (on Tube-us-all for about a year now.

    Load, Pose, and use the morph brush to get some folds in if and where required.

    Why complicate even the simplest of things?



  • @vilters Because paying customers don't want a primitive tube shrinkwrapped around a body pretending it's anything but a primitive tube shrinkwrapped around a body.


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