Using the "Copy Morphs from" function

  • Perhaps someone here can give me a little insight to an issue I'm having. I'm using PP11, with the latest update, on a Win7 machine.

    Anytime I try to use the "copy morphs from" function to get conforming clothing to fit morphed characters, it always comes out looking like this horrible, wrinkled, scrunched, distorted mess. If the clothing item has a visible seam or piping or something like that, it looks as if someone took a piece of paper and crumpled it over and over, then tried to smooth it out. The distortion is unbelievable.

    If I try to transfer any any morphs involving the breast/chest area, especially on female figures, it's almost as if the under side of the breasts don't even get morphed. There's just this jagged, empty, poke-thru area. This happens whether I try to copy the morphs individually, or spawn a full body morph on the character and copy just the single FBM.

    I must be doing something wrong, because I can't believe the software got released with a feature that works this poorly. I see people all the time saying they use that function and get great results. I've never seen anyone report the same type of issue I have, so it must be something I'm doing, or not doing.

    Anyone have any ideas?

  • Make sure the donor is geometrically close to the receiver when you do the copy action and use donors that morphs are smooth.

  • I’m one of the people who get great results. I have seen the cringled paper effect, though, when I have exported an obj and loaded it into a figure, but I somehow screwed up the export. It happened to me today when I tried to export a FBM from Dawn SR2 and load it into Dawn SE. It loaded but crinkled. So I can picture the efffect you are experiencing. I’ve never encountered it with the copy morphs from function. Maybe there is too much mismatch between the particular item you are conforming and the target figure.

  • @doc000 It happens most frequently with mismatched polygon density between the figure you are copying and the one you are copying to.

    But, yes, commercial vendors spend a great deal of time perfecting morph transfers - even with those transferred using Morphing Clothes. It it simply part of the project time it takes to make commercial quality products.

    Here's just one of many morph transfers that take considerable work to go from this:

    To this when we've perfected the morph:

  • Poser Ambassadors

    For "copy morphs from" to work properly the donor and the clothing need to have about the same polygon density and be pretty close together to start with.

    Generally, it works rather good.

    However there is a "cure" for poor results.

    When the morph transfer did not work out perfect do the following:
    -Transfer the morph into the clothing.

    • Set the morph in the DONOR figure to 1.000 => it only works with the donor figure morph set to 1.000 ! ! ! !
    • Select the clothing
    • Goto the morph in the clothing
    • Right click on the little arrow behind the morph dial in the clothing and select => Edit morph; ATTENTION : Don't change the morph value in the clothing. leave it "as is".
    • Now edit the morph using the morph brush.
    • Close the morph brush when finished.

    Select the figure and turn the morph dial and check how the clothing behaves.
    If satisfied you are done.
    Is NOT satisfied? Set the morph dial on the figure back to 1.000, select the clothing, and edit the morph again clicking on the little arrow and go back to edit morph.

    3 attention getters here :

    • It only works properly with the donor figures morph set to 1.000
    • Never touch the morph dial in the clothing.
    • The edit morph does NOT work on negative morph values. => it only messes up all the work done.

    Best regards, Tony

  • Thank you for all of the replies.

    Unfortunately, this isn't an issue where some items work fine, and others don't. This distortion happens to any piece of confroming clothing I try to transfer morphs into. I've tried it with free items (yeah, you basically get what you pay for) and commercial items from vendors that have always produced quality work over the years. It doesn't matter, it all comes out looking like crumpled pieces of paper. It doesn't matter what figure I'm using or what morphs I'm trying to transfer...the results are all so hideous that they're unuseable.

    I'll guess I'll just stick with using Morphing Clothes. It doesn't give me great results most of the time either, but at least I'm able to adjust the settings with it to try and get things to not look horrible. I wish I could adjust settings with the "copy morhps from" function instead of it being all or nothing.

    Whatever technology that Daz Stuido uses to get clothing to fit, I hope the next version of Poser uses that. It's the only feature of Studio where it blows Poser out of the water.

  • @doc000
    Maybe if you show an example we can tell you more about how to improve your results.

  • I tend to get very good results when copying morphs from characters to stockings. Trousers and skirts are a mixed bag and tops/shirts are mostly a mess.

    My strategy is to select each part of the clothing and use the menu item "Object > Copy Morphs from..." with every corresponding body part. This may be more work, but I learned that it copies less morphs to the clothing than the menu item "Figure > Copy Morphs from...", plus you can undo the former, but not the latter.

    Copying special female breast morphs from a character to a top or shirt usually makes things worse. If it works at all, you usually end up with the cloth hugging the breasts like shrink-wrap. Applying one or two magnets to the chest (adding the abdomen) of the clothing works much better.

    And finally: if the cloth polygons allow it, there is nothing better than the cloth simulation. Just find the .obj file of the cloth in the Runtime\Geometries folder and give it a try.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    A lot of breast morphs are created without thinking about clothing.

    When I create a figure obj and morphs, I always finetune the figure obj and morphs AFTER a lot of clothing was fit to the figure and morphs with the sole purpose to finetune the breast morphs.

    The side of the chest, and the area between the breasts needs special attention when creating breast morphs. This is often forgotten.

    => This is also the reason why we see so many "shrinkwrapped" clothing and outfits. => A complete lack of reality results.
    Shrinkwrapping has killed more clothing outfits then all other errors combined.

  • @fverbaas

    Here are some renders of various pieces of clothing on a morphed character:

    The renders are in pairs, before and after using the "copy morhps from" function. I'm using V4 with 3 FBM and some breast morphs dialed up, none at full strength. I'm also using a custom character morph (Darkworld's Demon Grrrl) dialed in at full strength.

    You can see that most don't even come close covering the breasts and the hip/thigh areas get turned into a deformed nightmare. Pics 3 and 4 are pretty much the results I get on about 80% of clothing items I transfer morphs to, across various characters.

  • @doc000
    Those are pretty extreme breast morphs you got there. LOL

    I've tried a number of different clothing items on Victoria 4, with the "Heavy" morph which is notoriously problematic, and because of that it's not often supported in clothing. Where it wasn't, I used the "Copy Morphs From" command and the results weren't as drastic as the fittings you show in your screen shots. The results were actually better than I expected, with only minor pokethrough in places.

    However, in looking at your screen shots, it would be interesting to view a "smooth lined" view of the clothing you used for test10, vs the one you used for test4. Is there a way you can take those screen caps again, but show them in Smooth Lined"? I suspect the polygon count for the clothing in test10 is denser than the one in test4 -- or, at least, has a better edge flow that lends itself better to bigger .. um ... spheres.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Really? LOL.
    No idea who created these things but that are no breast morphs.

    Looking close at some of the pictures, you clearly see that the ""balloons"" (ahum, excuse me for the verbal freedom) are almost touching but with a deep and sharp gap between them. => Test 09 and 10 shows the problem in the morph and Poser is trying, but this is extreme and not doable in any automatic way, shape or form..

  • @Deecey
    Another thought. Since you have Poser Pro 11, you might want to try this: (SAVE your project before you try, in case your results aren't what you expect)

    1. Select Victoria 4
    2. Choose Figure > Spawn Morph Target. Give a name for your character.
    3. Choose Figure > Zero Figure to zero out all the morphs.
    4. Dial your new character in. What the Spawn Morph Target command SHOULD have done was combine all those individual morphs into one morph that you can use instead.

    If all looks the way you expected. select your clothing and try Figure > Copy Morphs From again. And only select your new character spawned morph target.

    It's worth a shot.

  • @vilters
    Yeah those are pretty extreme. It would take some pretty heavy polygon counts to cover dose. LOL

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Combining all the morphs into a single , and do a "copy" from that on in the clothing will solve most of his issues, but the breast area?

  • @vilters
    That's why I was curious to see some of the lined views. Some of those clothing pieces are lending better results than others. Still, no matter how good the meshes are, there is definitely going to be some touchup required for those ... um ... "spheres" (LOL) ... and he may need to use the fitting tools in the Morph palette to fix them.

  • @doc000
    Thank you but what you do not show is the original fit at the moment the transfer is made.
    The morph deltas in the target are a weighted average of the deltas of the closest by source vertices, so bad fit gives bad result.

  • Can you not use the morph brush on the clothing, cover the figure with the clothing, then get into Fitting Room, and do a fit without zeroing the clothing ? Then generate a conforming clothing figure from there.

  • @ibr_remote You could do that, but for personal use only. The resulting CR2 could not be distributed without violating copyright.

    It's not just the way breast morphs are made, it's that expecting a mesh, created at breast cup C, morphed to breast cup EEEEEE balloons to fit without work to eliminate the distortion. The same is true with the hip.

    There are reasons vendors don't support extreme morphs - very validly displayed right here in this thread. The same thing happened with Stephanie4 in the reverse - her small breast size caused so much crushing in clothing mesh most vendors wouldn't take the time required to fix the mess.

  • Thanks for all the replies.

    I'm not real sure what you were looking for. In each pair of images, the clothing item was conformed to the model, so the "before" images are what it looks like before trying to transfer morphs. Most of the clothing items had some of the morphs I was using, but not all. I only transferred the morphs that weren't already in the clothing. I had also checked the boxes to automatically include morphs and scaling.

    I've tried the trick of just spawning a FBM of the charcter and then transferring that. It usually produces even worse results.

    I've also tried using the fitting room after I've morphed/adjusted the clothing item. Works great for male figures most of the time, but those darn breasts on female figures always seem to cause a problem. :)

    I'm not normally a fan of using "well endowed" female models, but most of the people who commission me certainly are. So, that's why I want to find an easier way to put clothes on large breasted characters.

    I guess I'll just stick with Morphing clothes/morphing tool/magnets and some creative postwork.