Using the "Copy Morphs from" function

  • I tend to get very good results when copying morphs from characters to stockings. Trousers and skirts are a mixed bag and tops/shirts are mostly a mess.

    My strategy is to select each part of the clothing and use the menu item "Object > Copy Morphs from..." with every corresponding body part. This may be more work, but I learned that it copies less morphs to the clothing than the menu item "Figure > Copy Morphs from...", plus you can undo the former, but not the latter.

    Copying special female breast morphs from a character to a top or shirt usually makes things worse. If it works at all, you usually end up with the cloth hugging the breasts like shrink-wrap. Applying one or two magnets to the chest (adding the abdomen) of the clothing works much better.

    And finally: if the cloth polygons allow it, there is nothing better than the cloth simulation. Just find the .obj file of the cloth in the Runtime\Geometries folder and give it a try.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    A lot of breast morphs are created without thinking about clothing.

    When I create a figure obj and morphs, I always finetune the figure obj and morphs AFTER a lot of clothing was fit to the figure and morphs with the sole purpose to finetune the breast morphs.

    The side of the chest, and the area between the breasts needs special attention when creating breast morphs. This is often forgotten.

    => This is also the reason why we see so many "shrinkwrapped" clothing and outfits. => A complete lack of reality results.
    Shrinkwrapping has killed more clothing outfits then all other errors combined.

  • @fverbaas

    Here are some renders of various pieces of clothing on a morphed character:

    The renders are in pairs, before and after using the "copy morhps from" function. I'm using V4 with 3 FBM and some breast morphs dialed up, none at full strength. I'm also using a custom character morph (Darkworld's Demon Grrrl) dialed in at full strength.

    You can see that most don't even come close covering the breasts and the hip/thigh areas get turned into a deformed nightmare. Pics 3 and 4 are pretty much the results I get on about 80% of clothing items I transfer morphs to, across various characters.

  • @doc000
    Those are pretty extreme breast morphs you got there. LOL

    I've tried a number of different clothing items on Victoria 4, with the "Heavy" morph which is notoriously problematic, and because of that it's not often supported in clothing. Where it wasn't, I used the "Copy Morphs From" command and the results weren't as drastic as the fittings you show in your screen shots. The results were actually better than I expected, with only minor pokethrough in places.

    However, in looking at your screen shots, it would be interesting to view a "smooth lined" view of the clothing you used for test10, vs the one you used for test4. Is there a way you can take those screen caps again, but show them in Smooth Lined"? I suspect the polygon count for the clothing in test10 is denser than the one in test4 -- or, at least, has a better edge flow that lends itself better to bigger .. um ... spheres.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Really? LOL.
    No idea who created these things but that are no breast morphs.

    Looking close at some of the pictures, you clearly see that the ""balloons"" (ahum, excuse me for the verbal freedom) are almost touching but with a deep and sharp gap between them. => Test 09 and 10 shows the problem in the morph and Poser is trying, but this is extreme and not doable in any automatic way, shape or form..

  • @Deecey
    Another thought. Since you have Poser Pro 11, you might want to try this: (SAVE your project before you try, in case your results aren't what you expect)

    1. Select Victoria 4
    2. Choose Figure > Spawn Morph Target. Give a name for your character.
    3. Choose Figure > Zero Figure to zero out all the morphs.
    4. Dial your new character in. What the Spawn Morph Target command SHOULD have done was combine all those individual morphs into one morph that you can use instead.

    If all looks the way you expected. select your clothing and try Figure > Copy Morphs From again. And only select your new character spawned morph target.

    It's worth a shot.

  • @vilters
    Yeah those are pretty extreme. It would take some pretty heavy polygon counts to cover dose. LOL

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Combining all the morphs into a single , and do a "copy" from that on in the clothing will solve most of his issues, but the breast area?

  • @vilters
    That's why I was curious to see some of the lined views. Some of those clothing pieces are lending better results than others. Still, no matter how good the meshes are, there is definitely going to be some touchup required for those ... um ... "spheres" (LOL) ... and he may need to use the fitting tools in the Morph palette to fix them.

  • @doc000
    Thank you but what you do not show is the original fit at the moment the transfer is made.
    The morph deltas in the target are a weighted average of the deltas of the closest by source vertices, so bad fit gives bad result.

  • Can you not use the morph brush on the clothing, cover the figure with the clothing, then get into Fitting Room, and do a fit without zeroing the clothing ? Then generate a conforming clothing figure from there.

  • @ibr_remote You could do that, but for personal use only. The resulting CR2 could not be distributed without violating copyright.

    It's not just the way breast morphs are made, it's that expecting a mesh, created at breast cup C, morphed to breast cup EEEEEE balloons to fit without work to eliminate the distortion. The same is true with the hip.

    There are reasons vendors don't support extreme morphs - very validly displayed right here in this thread. The same thing happened with Stephanie4 in the reverse - her small breast size caused so much crushing in clothing mesh most vendors wouldn't take the time required to fix the mess.

  • Thanks for all the replies.

    I'm not real sure what you were looking for. In each pair of images, the clothing item was conformed to the model, so the "before" images are what it looks like before trying to transfer morphs. Most of the clothing items had some of the morphs I was using, but not all. I only transferred the morphs that weren't already in the clothing. I had also checked the boxes to automatically include morphs and scaling.

    I've tried the trick of just spawning a FBM of the charcter and then transferring that. It usually produces even worse results.

    I've also tried using the fitting room after I've morphed/adjusted the clothing item. Works great for male figures most of the time, but those darn breasts on female figures always seem to cause a problem. :)

    I'm not normally a fan of using "well endowed" female models, but most of the people who commission me certainly are. So, that's why I want to find an easier way to put clothes on large breasted characters.

    I guess I'll just stick with Morphing clothes/morphing tool/magnets and some creative postwork.

  • @doc000
    I do not see any images labelled before or aft, and no fits that would transfer correctly.
    If it does not fit at the time of morph copy, it will not fit afterwards either.
    Make copy when figure and clothing are zero-ed.

  • @doc000 As someone with a long time experience with large breast morphs, I sympathize. As people have said, Copy Morphs work fine mid range morphs, but not so well for extreme morphs, especially if the clothing item doesn't have a lot of polygons.

    Morph Brush's "Loosen Fit" option does help. When trying to pull up large area, do it in sections. Don't be afraid to lower the intensity. You will have a finer control over the morph.

    At times, I will load in a ball prop and use that as the goal for Loosen and Tighten instead of the figure. I can place and shape the ball where it would be the best to morph from.

    Good morphs take time.

  • I've had similar issues with muscular men., though not in the extremes shown. I've used the morph brush to fix it but reading this thread and that it's caused by too low of polygons made me wonder, would subdividing before copying the morphs help?