Pauline and Paul V2



  • First people complain that poser is dying and daz is taking over. They also complain that Smith Mirco never responds to us. Now Smith Mirco does respond and tells us poser is doing fine and you complain again. I wasn't aware complaining was such a widespread hobby. (I know I need to get out more.) The demise of poser has been predicted more times than the end of the earth. Chances are even if Smith Micro can't keep it going, they'll sell it to someone else. For as many hands as Poser has passed through, that seems clear. But I don't know that anyone else has held onto it this long.

    As for P&P v2, I can't say much. I didn't get the newsletter to read anything about them. Don't know if the changes are cosmetic or functional, or both. I think both have some potential to be good figures. Look at Pauline advanced. She's pretty good.



  • Internet rumors are like any other and you have to ask yourself 'qui bono'. And that is DAZ and DAZ ultra supporters.

    DAZ doesn't really have to prove anything in the hobby market. During the first few versions, if Poser had died off, DAZ would have been in big trouble, because DS was pretty bad at just about everything. But since then, DAZ has been able to turn from compatibility to incompatibility as a strategy to try to keep users in one camp or the other, and to try to get anyone invested in DAZ content to just stick with DAZ. Now Poser occupies some market segments that DAZ wants to enter, because they've likely been plateauing a bit in their (now) historically strong hobbyist market. They are trying to figure out how to make money off of game dev and 3d printing, but those are sort of different types of markets.

    So who benefits from noise that Poser is dying?



  • This is about the business aspect of Poser, not the software itself. For Poser to be a viable product, i.e., for it to stay alive, SM must do two things: (1) bring in new users, and (2) get existing users to upgrade to new releases. (I'm sure they have an income stream from Poser related products at Content Paradise, but this is about Poser per se.)

    Software isn't like most products. Complex apps like Poser require a significant investment - not just in the purchase price but in the time and effort to get up to speed. My investment in the purchase price of Poser is a pittance compared to the investment of my time. I am not going to invest a significant amount of my time in any app that I think might not be viable. In fact part of my reason for choosing Poser over DAZ was based on the viability issue. So, again, imagine someone new to 3D and vacillating between Poser and DAZ, and they see the "we're not dead yet" campaign. They haven't immersed themselves in the product like we have, so the main thing they take away from this campaign is that Poser is struggling or, at the very least, that there is a perception that Poser is struggling, and sometimes perception is the catalyst for reality. This is not the way to lure new users to your product.

    For me personally, as a veteran Poser user, this campaign will probably do it for me and Poser. I've considered moving to DAZ for years, and the main reason I haven't was inertia - I've already made the time investment, I'm familiar with it, I have my little utilities I use, I'm lazy, etc. Of course, inertia is a pretty powerful force, so...



  • @ElZagna This campaign was mailed out to existing users of Poser though, it's less about luring new users and more about making sure that the existing userbase feel that the owners of Poser know that the product is still alive and being supported with new features and updates.

    Never mind about gaining new users, once your existing customers feel abandoned and unsupported, then the product truly is dead. It's the worry of Poser users all heading over to Daz that I'm sure Smith-Micro is fearful of (given that Daz Studio is free and comes with some high-end figures for free too, figures that Poser hasn't been able to match... at least not the figures that are bundled with it).



  • @redphantom If that's directed at me, you're wrong. I'm not complaining about Poser - at least not in this thread. I'm saying they have a terrible marketing campaign.



  • @TomsGX said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    @ElZagna This campaign was mailed out to existing users of Poser though, it's less about luring new users and more about making sure that the existing userbase feel that the owners of Poser know that the product is still alive and being supported with new features and updates.

    Never mind about gaining new users, once your existing customers feel abandoned and unsupported, then the product truly is dead. It's the worry of Poser users all heading over to Daz that I'm sure Smith-Micro is fearful of (given that Daz Studio is free and comes with some high-end figures for free too, figures that Poser hasn't been able to match... at least not the figures that are bundled with it).

    Well said! It's the CURRENT userbase that's important, and if SM can't keep that CURRENT userbase happy, then there's a problem, so letting the CURRENT userbase know all is well, and progressing, is the best way to keep Poser alive and well. New users will come along, but as long as the CURRENT userbase stays intact, we're in good shape.



  • It's not directed at anyone in particular. Just stating that some people seem to never be happy no matter what they do. And I agree, as a way to draw in new buyers, saying it's not dead yet, doesn't seem to be bright. But as TonsGX said, it wasn't directed at potential new users, but existing ones, the ones who are concerned. It's not stated on the website and from what I can find, they don't have access to the newsletter there either. You don't always market the same to your existing customers as you would new ones. This is one of those times.



  • I thought the statement in the newsletter was in the vein of SM poking fun at all the Poser doomsayers myself. Having experienced several periods of "Poser is dying", I won't believe any of it until it's officially announced that Poser development is ending and the program is being indefinitely shelved (not sold).

    As for new versions of Paul and Pauline, I'll reserve judgment until I have something visually to compare with the existing versions. It would be nice to have some higher quality figures from SM, but the built-in Poser figures have never been that good.

    Though I do have a concern about whether P&P v2 are going to be free upgrades, or if we'll have to spend money to get them (and if so, how much?).



  • @Miss-B said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    Well said! It's the CURRENT userbase that's important, and if SM can't keep that CURRENT userbase happy, then there's a problem, so letting the CURRENT userbase know all is well, and progressing, is the best way to keep Poser alive and well. New users will come along, but as long as the CURRENT userbase stays intact, we're in good shape.

    You've got to bring in new users. Every current user was a new user at one time.

    I'm glad that it was pointed out that this was directed at existing users only. That makes it a little better, but not much. As a current user, the "we're not dead yet, why look what we've done to Paul and Pauline" is hardly a compelling sales pitch.



  • @modus0 said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    Though I do have a concern about whether P&P v2 are going to be free upgrades, or if we'll have to spend money to get them (and if so, how much?).

    This. If the updates are going to cost some may not get them. Folk that have been using alternate and custom characters may not be too willing to pony up for updates to figures they may have moved on from. The cash that would go to an updated P&P may move to Ero's girl or something else.



  • I see no reasons why this would be paid updates.
    Had they been paid updates/extensions they would have been named differently.

    Let us not speculate but wait and see.



  • I keep checking my email and I have yet to get anything about this. Its very weird.



  • @ElZagna said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    @Miss-B said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    Well said! It's the CURRENT userbase that's important, and if SM can't keep that CURRENT userbase happy, then there's a problem, so letting the CURRENT userbase know all is well, and progressing, is the best way to keep Poser alive and well. New users will come along, but as long as the CURRENT userbase stays intact, we're in good shape.

    You've got to bring in new users. Every current user was a new user at one time.

    True, but as I see it, losing from your current userbase is worse than not bringing in new users, because the new users will just "replace" the current userbase members who have left, and not build up the strength of the Poser userbase in general.



  • Also, the new users can't replace the knowledge that the users who left have had.
    In the past we had side-long input from experts like BagginsBill, SnarlyGribbly, and about a dozen more whose knowledge about Poser was unparalleled.

    Where are we now instead?

    I think keeping the old users is at least as important as collecting new users!

    Karina



  • My thought is that there are more Poser users then one could ever Imagine
    allot stay silent, do not have the need to shout it out loud , I got to know allot of
    Writers that are Passionated of Poser.
    Daz Users are more Impulsive and seem to have a Huge fear of Loss, shouting out loud
    in the Woods, guess it is a way to get attention for there works to get noticed and get some appreciation.
    Poser Users do not seem to find any need on this as they know what they can.
    I feel a little sorry for allot of great Creators that Left Poser, as they were fearing to
    get a financial loss, as these are also a Part on who leads the market.
    In one hand it is an advantage as it leaves new space for New Creators and there is less
    Concurrence of a huge crowd of Artists.
    On my side this was what pushed me to release Exclusive Poser Models using the
    extraordinary Power of Poser witch Daz studio could not keep up with as these do not
    offer compatibility to them.

    It is not really the Sexy doll that makes a Program great it is what you can do with it
    and the more that it offers Individual Creativity the better it is . Poser has a tremendous
    Potential if one is not to lazy getting into it and even after 15 years that I used it, I was not able
    to use all the features that it really offers.

    Most Creators still need to use Poser to get there figures right and exported into
    Daz Studio , they make a big secret out of it forgetting that if there is no Poser there will not be a good working Daz Sudio any longer.



  • @summoner said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    My thought is that there are more Poser users then one could ever Imagine
    allot stay silent, do not have the need to shout it out loud , I got to know allot of
    Writers that are Passionated of Poser.
    Daz Users are more Impulsive and seem to have a Huge fear of Loss, shouting out loud
    in the Woods, guess it is a way to get attention for there works to get noticed and get some appreciation.
    Poser Users do not seem to find any need on this as they know what they can.
    I feel a little sorry for allot of great Creators that Left Poser, as they were fearing to
    get a financial loss, as these are also a Part on who leads the market.
    In one hand it is an advantage as it leaves new space for New Creators and there is less
    Concurrence of a huge crowd of Artists.
    On my side this was what pushed me to release Exclusive Poser Models using the
    extraordinary Power of Poser witch Daz studio could not keep up with as these do not
    offer compatibility to them.

    It is not really the Sexy doll that makes a Program great it is what you can do with it
    and the more that it offers Individual Creativity the better it is . Poser has a tremendous
    Potential if one is not to lazy getting into it and even after 15 years that I used it, I was not able
    to use all the features that it really offers.

    Most Creators still need to use Poser to get there figures right and exported into
    Daz Studio , they make a big secret out of it forgetting that if there is no Poser there will not be a good working Daz Sudio any longer.

    Oh..so Poser is great and perfect and some of us are just too lazy and stupid to appreciate is magnificent greatness. Our bad, sorry.



  • @WILL_I_AM said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    Oh..so Poser is great and perfect and some of us are just too lazy and stupid to appreciate is magnificent greatness. Our bad, sorry.

    That's ok - you can still come to the side of right - we have cookies (and Project E.)

    Summoners point is that DS users (and DS vendors) tend to invade Poser forums (See the ones at 'Rosity for example, - pay particular attention to any thread that is focused on a non-DAZ figure - for instance) and spend a lot of time telling Poser users that they are foolish to stay with Poser rather than moving to DS.

    If they were confident in their choices, they would be up in the DS forums, sharing their knowledge.

    We tend not to go into DS forums and berate the DS users for their choices.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @WILL_I_AM said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    Oh..so Poser is great and perfect and some of us are just too lazy and stupid to appreciate is magnificent greatness. Our bad, sorry.

    That's a false misrepresentation of @summoner .
    I ^would^ assert that many of us think Poser is great fun, and a perfectly enjoyable hobby. Some of us believe that it is more constructive to put in the work/time to file documented bug reports, and to create things for sharing with our fellow Poserfolk.

    It does seem like any time something positive appears in a Poser forum, the flying monkeys are sent hither. I'm beginning to wonder if the G8 acolytes have formed a religious cult, and are compelled to admonish us infidels. Reminds me of a couple of women who made advances to me, and upon being -politely- declined, proceeded to stalk/harass me.

    Look, I concur that G8 is a great looking doll chassis, and DS is a perfectly enjoyable 3D studio, and I wish DS users in general well. But as for the cadre of concern trolls who ever proclaim the death of Phoenix, er, Poser, why are you in Poser forums, kicking over our sand castles? Why can you not stand to allow us to enjoy our chosen hobby in peace?



  • @seachnasaigh said in Pauline and Paul V2:

    Why can you not stand to allow us to enjoy our chosen hobby in peace?

    That's it in a nutshell Seach. I've been wondering the same thing for 4 years now, and I liked and used DS for years, and still use it on occasion when I'm using my Generation 4 characters. Just because I didn't get into Genesis 2, 3 and 8 doesn't make me a bad person. That's just MY personal choice, and I hate being berated for it.



  • @Miss-B I am seeing it more and more. I bet if I was to go over to a DS forum there are no Poser users in there doing the same thing...