SM produced poser content.



  • @Teyon On a similar note, I recently bought poser 10. It is my first foray into the 3D modelling realm. I plan on using it to create book covers and animated shorts to promote my books.

    I know Poser 10 is one generation old, but ya gotta start somewhere. I watched tutorials and dove in. I made my first character using Jessi. It turned out great. But there were limited clothing/accessory choices, so I went to the stores.

    That is when I found out Jessi was from Poser 6 and there was really nothing left. I did find a site with quite a bit of interesting Jessi content based on the thumbnails, and the links the pointed me back to Content Paradise links for free and "on sale" Jessi 6 content...but, alas, it has all been removed from Content Paradise. What remains is slim pickings.

    Are there plans to release "Bundles" of older Smith Micro character content (P5, P6,etc) so us newbies can get our feet wet before we drive into newer versions (Budget minded folks want to know)? If not...can I suggest they make plans to release said bundles?



  • Much of the stuff that exists for the older characters can either be found on CP or (assuming they haven't been taken down yet) at Renderosity. It's unlikely that we'll do a bundle for older characters - not completely out of the range of possibility, just unlikely. Much of that content is old and when I say old, I mean not just in terms of when they were made but also in how they were made. In terms of quality compared to models of today, you may be disappointed. In their heyday, they were pretty cool but that was a long time back. That said, if we found there was a large cry for that, we'd do it in a heartbeat. So now that the thought is out there, I'm sure it'll be discussed.



  • On the 'official Poser Forums' that used to be I once suggested to capitalize on the legacy stuff and open the possibility to distribute derivatives/improvements etc. from a corner of CP that requires you to give a valid Poser license code for the stuff in your cart when checking out. This would ensure the content would not be distributed beyond the circle that is entitled to receive it.

    We found application of sub-surface scatter and Superfly can give old content a new life. There is no need for each user to run Wardrobe Wizzard individually to convert say Jessi native stuff to Pauline.

    Sure this does not work for items that are not 'native', like for example the Miki's, but depending on ownership rights on the original I take it something similar would be feasible. In the end it is a business decision. Just how much income does for example original MIki and her supporting stuff bring as she is now and how much would she bring if she were made available by someone with updated skin shaders.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Updating the Miki's skin shaders can be done by anyone that wants to create new skins for her. It doesn't require modifying anything in the original figure.

    It would be nice to see official updates to the older figures though, the ones that have major flaws, such as unwelded points, pieces that were never mapped at all or that have overlapping UVs that make it impossible to create textures for, etc. But doing that would break a lot of the existing content for them, so it's more logical to release updated figures as a separate product.

    What I would like to see is a set of figures that incorporate all the legacy characters as FBM shapes. So, for example, if Pauline was the base shape, make Miki 2016, Sydney 2016, Jessi 2016, Kate 2016, etc., all FBMs for Pauline, with updated looks so they aren't 100% identical to their legacy counterparts. And the same for the guys.



  • @AmbientShade That was my plan for Paul and Pauline. I even had a FBM that would turn Pauline's shape into Jessi but then we changed the mesh and I didn't have time to reproject or do a counterpart for Paul. Hopefully next go 'round, I'll have at least head morphs in there of the older figures.



  • @AmbientShade said in SM produced poser content.:

    Updating the Miki's skin shaders can be done by anyone that wants to create new skins for her. It doesn't require modifying anything in the original figure.

    You are right. I used a bad example with the skin.

    @Teyon: What would be the use of head morphs of the older figures? Body and shape morphs can be useful for fitting clothing and such, but why would one want a Jessi face on Pauline body?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    It's the name and branding that would be carried over more than just the shape itself. The shape needs to be updated as well of course.

    You could keep creating entirely new characters, but there's already several characters that are known for being SM figures, so why not continue developing new versions of those characters? That's branding. Example, Miki 1-4, James and James G2, Koji 1 and 2, etc. There's a whole family of SM figures that could have their shapes updated and incorporated into a master figure, but it requires an actual dedicated art team, it's too big of a task for just one or two people to do.



  • Wouldn't it just be more resourceful to discover why vendors don't support the figures? And, why customers refuse to purchase content for them?

    My experience is that you can make content for Poser figures all day long, and just be laughed out of the room by the customers - unless it's FREE.



  • @AmbientShade said in SM produced poser content.:

    It's the name and branding that would be carried over more than just the shape itself. The shape needs to be updated as well of course.

    You could keep creating entirely new characters, but there's already several characters that are known for being SM figures, so why not continue developing new versions of those characters? That's branding. Example, Miki 1-4, James and James G2, Koji 1 and 2, etc. There's a whole family of SM figures that could have their shapes updated and incorporated into a master figure, but it requires an actual dedicated art team, it's too big of a task for just one or two people to do.

    This is a pretty good idea. You'd have a family of figures that people are more or less already familiar with. Stick with the known names (Miki, James, Koji), and modernize the meshes, rather than making more new figures. As you said, incorporating them into a new figure would be hard work, but it might be worth it. A certain company that shall remain nameless has done this for a long time with their two most major female and male characters. These characters are part of a brand identity for them now. If they'd decided to call these characters Velma and Herbert, there'd be no association with previous successful characters to push things along. Every new character gets lost in the shuffle of all the other new characters. Having some history to draw on might be a good thing for SM.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D said in SM produced poser content.:

    Wouldn't it just be more resourceful to discover why vendors don't support the figures? And, why customers refuse to purchase content for them?

    My experience is that you can make content for Poser figures all day long, and just be laughed out of the room by the customers - unless it's FREE.

    Well, poser content has been pretty fractured over the last few years and most of the big names have gone elsewhere. That doesn't mean a new group of vendors can't replace them though. But it will take some team work and dedication from a group of content artists working together towards that goal. It's not going to happen overnight.

    There is still demand for Poser content, but that demand requires the content to be designed by modern standards. People want realism, not toons, for the most part. And they want versatility. Vendors want one figure to work with, that is designed well, that doesn't have overlapping UVs or a bunch of unnecessary geometry or unwelded points, and that looks human and attractive and fits its gender without weird joint bends, right out of the library. One figure to pull whatever shape they want out of it. When you expect them to make 10 outfits for 10 different figures, they just aren't going to do that. They pick one figure to build for, and if no one is buying for that figure then they move on to something else.



  • @AmbientShade And here we go again with the same old, same old stupid circular argument.

    The bottom line is simple - there's no Poser figure with rigging good enough for this magical "group of vendors" to get interested in. The mesh just has to look "generic" enough for vendors to use their imagination, but the rigging has to be superior. That simply does not exist.

    And, I wasn't talking about all "Poser content" just the topic of this thread SM PRODUCED POSER CONTENT.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Yep, and I think that falls under the "designed by modern standards" category. If the rigging bends like crap then it's not going to get much attention, except from those who have the patience and interest in modifying it. Animated centers allow you to change a rig without breaking compatibility with other content, as long as that content is built for it, which it should be, by modern standards. But that also requires vendors to want to learn how to work with animated centers. There is a certain amount of vendors unwillingness to learn the newer features of Poser's content creation methods that has been expressed a number of times, that contributes to all of this.



  • @AmbientShade Name an SM produced Poser figure that is rigged with animated centers.

    You see, one must HAVE the animated centers to rig to before one can learn how to do so..........

    Again, a circular argument.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The teen morphs for Paul and Pauline.

    But no, you don't have to have a figure with animated centers in order to learn how to build for them. You just need to learn how to create animated centers, which is not that difficult, and Poser 11 pro even (attempts to) create them for you when you create a new FBM for a figure.
    Look at any of the clothing for Paul and Pauline that come with Poser (I can't say if this exists in any of the 3rd party clothing out there). With the Body of the clothing selected, In the parameters pallet go to the Properties tab and you will see a list of items with check boxes - one of those items is Match End Points. If that box is checked on any body part in the clothing, then that body part's joints will follow the joints of the figure when the FBM is applied. Or at least, that is how it is supposed to work.

    Rex and Roxie's clothing have it too. And animated centers can be created for any poser figure - even Dawn and Dusk - and then injected as an FBM.



  • @AmbientShade you said "at least that is how it is supposed to work."

    And therein lies the issue.

    I can TRY to rig for animated joints........but it doesn't mean I won't get an end result like this:

    0_1465186863589_AnimatableOrigins.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Are you using scaling or animated centers, with those body shapes?

    Ideally a figure that is designed properly will use a combination of both - the scaling would drive the animated centers, and that scaling would exist in the figure from day one - not as just an add-on. That way anyone creating content for that base figure can take advantage of the scaling, and if FBMs were also built around that base scaling, then content would work with less struggles from the content artist and the end user. There is still going to be some clean-up work involved for any content artist but that is due to how Poser handles morph transfer, not how the figure itself was designed. As we see more improvements to morph transfer that cleanup work will become simpler.



  • @AmbientShade That's the problem - it doesn't work consistently.

    And, as a content creator, I don't control how another vendor creates a morph.

    Since I can't get the animated joints to work consistently, I have no option but to eliminate morphs that utilize it.

    It should be seamless and consistent and it's not.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I agree on the seamless and consistent part.

    There are ways to make it function more consistently though. I'll post some examples of how to do that on my youtube channel when I start building clothing for Orion, which should be in the next few days.



  • Seems to me THE TOOL that SM needs to make is "Poser-Tailor". The idea of the program tool would be to allow us to load the base figure wire-frame parameters as a start and create clothes around it using basic clothes construction check off boxes (Collar: yes /no, Collar shape: Triangle/Flat, buttons: Yes/ no, # of buttons:3-5, etc). Male or female. Like a tailor using a pattern. Materials, colors, fabric style, buttons, belt loops, belt width, longpant legs, shorts, bikini, and so on.. Then we use lassos spaced along the parts of the piece of clothing to shape it (Making the loops larger or smaller and circular or oval). The more lassos the wilder the transitions in/out along the surface sleeve or waist or neck or chest or pant leg.

    When we finish the piece, we hit "Make clothes" and it becomes a totally compliant (morphable,etc) Piece of poser clothes for the character we chose. Takes all of the finagling, fiddling and hours spent learning how to use one dynamic or aspect of modelling at a time. Oh, and "3rd party vendor" popularity issues would be out of it, because I could make the piece of clothes I need and then sell it as compliant.

    Now THAT is a tool I would buy in a heartbeat.



  • @BikerNerd Yeah, the "3rd party vendor popularity issues" would be out of it. You'd put them all out of business.

    However, if memory serves, something similar to your idea was released over at DAZ and ended up in the clearance bin (Fast Grab) last week.