SM produced poser content.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    It's the name and branding that would be carried over more than just the shape itself. The shape needs to be updated as well of course.

    You could keep creating entirely new characters, but there's already several characters that are known for being SM figures, so why not continue developing new versions of those characters? That's branding. Example, Miki 1-4, James and James G2, Koji 1 and 2, etc. There's a whole family of SM figures that could have their shapes updated and incorporated into a master figure, but it requires an actual dedicated art team, it's too big of a task for just one or two people to do.



  • Wouldn't it just be more resourceful to discover why vendors don't support the figures? And, why customers refuse to purchase content for them?

    My experience is that you can make content for Poser figures all day long, and just be laughed out of the room by the customers - unless it's FREE.



  • @AmbientShade said in SM produced poser content.:

    It's the name and branding that would be carried over more than just the shape itself. The shape needs to be updated as well of course.

    You could keep creating entirely new characters, but there's already several characters that are known for being SM figures, so why not continue developing new versions of those characters? That's branding. Example, Miki 1-4, James and James G2, Koji 1 and 2, etc. There's a whole family of SM figures that could have their shapes updated and incorporated into a master figure, but it requires an actual dedicated art team, it's too big of a task for just one or two people to do.

    This is a pretty good idea. You'd have a family of figures that people are more or less already familiar with. Stick with the known names (Miki, James, Koji), and modernize the meshes, rather than making more new figures. As you said, incorporating them into a new figure would be hard work, but it might be worth it. A certain company that shall remain nameless has done this for a long time with their two most major female and male characters. These characters are part of a brand identity for them now. If they'd decided to call these characters Velma and Herbert, there'd be no association with previous successful characters to push things along. Every new character gets lost in the shuffle of all the other new characters. Having some history to draw on might be a good thing for SM.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D said in SM produced poser content.:

    Wouldn't it just be more resourceful to discover why vendors don't support the figures? And, why customers refuse to purchase content for them?

    My experience is that you can make content for Poser figures all day long, and just be laughed out of the room by the customers - unless it's FREE.

    Well, poser content has been pretty fractured over the last few years and most of the big names have gone elsewhere. That doesn't mean a new group of vendors can't replace them though. But it will take some team work and dedication from a group of content artists working together towards that goal. It's not going to happen overnight.

    There is still demand for Poser content, but that demand requires the content to be designed by modern standards. People want realism, not toons, for the most part. And they want versatility. Vendors want one figure to work with, that is designed well, that doesn't have overlapping UVs or a bunch of unnecessary geometry or unwelded points, and that looks human and attractive and fits its gender without weird joint bends, right out of the library. One figure to pull whatever shape they want out of it. When you expect them to make 10 outfits for 10 different figures, they just aren't going to do that. They pick one figure to build for, and if no one is buying for that figure then they move on to something else.



  • @AmbientShade And here we go again with the same old, same old stupid circular argument.

    The bottom line is simple - there's no Poser figure with rigging good enough for this magical "group of vendors" to get interested in. The mesh just has to look "generic" enough for vendors to use their imagination, but the rigging has to be superior. That simply does not exist.

    And, I wasn't talking about all "Poser content" just the topic of this thread SM PRODUCED POSER CONTENT.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Yep, and I think that falls under the "designed by modern standards" category. If the rigging bends like crap then it's not going to get much attention, except from those who have the patience and interest in modifying it. Animated centers allow you to change a rig without breaking compatibility with other content, as long as that content is built for it, which it should be, by modern standards. But that also requires vendors to want to learn how to work with animated centers. There is a certain amount of vendors unwillingness to learn the newer features of Poser's content creation methods that has been expressed a number of times, that contributes to all of this.



  • @AmbientShade Name an SM produced Poser figure that is rigged with animated centers.

    You see, one must HAVE the animated centers to rig to before one can learn how to do so..........

    Again, a circular argument.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The teen morphs for Paul and Pauline.

    But no, you don't have to have a figure with animated centers in order to learn how to build for them. You just need to learn how to create animated centers, which is not that difficult, and Poser 11 pro even (attempts to) create them for you when you create a new FBM for a figure.
    Look at any of the clothing for Paul and Pauline that come with Poser (I can't say if this exists in any of the 3rd party clothing out there). With the Body of the clothing selected, In the parameters pallet go to the Properties tab and you will see a list of items with check boxes - one of those items is Match End Points. If that box is checked on any body part in the clothing, then that body part's joints will follow the joints of the figure when the FBM is applied. Or at least, that is how it is supposed to work.

    Rex and Roxie's clothing have it too. And animated centers can be created for any poser figure - even Dawn and Dusk - and then injected as an FBM.



  • @AmbientShade you said "at least that is how it is supposed to work."

    And therein lies the issue.

    I can TRY to rig for animated joints........but it doesn't mean I won't get an end result like this:

    0_1465186863589_AnimatableOrigins.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Are you using scaling or animated centers, with those body shapes?

    Ideally a figure that is designed properly will use a combination of both - the scaling would drive the animated centers, and that scaling would exist in the figure from day one - not as just an add-on. That way anyone creating content for that base figure can take advantage of the scaling, and if FBMs were also built around that base scaling, then content would work with less struggles from the content artist and the end user. There is still going to be some clean-up work involved for any content artist but that is due to how Poser handles morph transfer, not how the figure itself was designed. As we see more improvements to morph transfer that cleanup work will become simpler.



  • @AmbientShade That's the problem - it doesn't work consistently.

    And, as a content creator, I don't control how another vendor creates a morph.

    Since I can't get the animated joints to work consistently, I have no option but to eliminate morphs that utilize it.

    It should be seamless and consistent and it's not.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I agree on the seamless and consistent part.

    There are ways to make it function more consistently though. I'll post some examples of how to do that on my youtube channel when I start building clothing for Orion, which should be in the next few days.



  • Seems to me THE TOOL that SM needs to make is "Poser-Tailor". The idea of the program tool would be to allow us to load the base figure wire-frame parameters as a start and create clothes around it using basic clothes construction check off boxes (Collar: yes /no, Collar shape: Triangle/Flat, buttons: Yes/ no, # of buttons:3-5, etc). Male or female. Like a tailor using a pattern. Materials, colors, fabric style, buttons, belt loops, belt width, longpant legs, shorts, bikini, and so on.. Then we use lassos spaced along the parts of the piece of clothing to shape it (Making the loops larger or smaller and circular or oval). The more lassos the wilder the transitions in/out along the surface sleeve or waist or neck or chest or pant leg.

    When we finish the piece, we hit "Make clothes" and it becomes a totally compliant (morphable,etc) Piece of poser clothes for the character we chose. Takes all of the finagling, fiddling and hours spent learning how to use one dynamic or aspect of modelling at a time. Oh, and "3rd party vendor" popularity issues would be out of it, because I could make the piece of clothes I need and then sell it as compliant.

    Now THAT is a tool I would buy in a heartbeat.



  • @BikerNerd Yeah, the "3rd party vendor popularity issues" would be out of it. You'd put them all out of business.

    However, if memory serves, something similar to your idea was released over at DAZ and ended up in the clearance bin (Fast Grab) last week.



  • @F_Verbaas said in SM produced poser content.:

    @AmbientShade said in SM produced poser content.:

    Updating the Miki's skin shaders can be done by anyone that wants to create new skins for her. It doesn't require modifying anything in the original figure.

    You are right. I used a bad example with the skin.

    @Teyon: What would be the use of head morphs of the older figures? Body and shape morphs can be useful for fitting clothing and such, but why would one want a Jessi face on Pauline body?

    The benefit is that it would move the figures forward without having to do entirely new bodies each time. Also, why the heck would you want to have new versions of the bodies if the old clothing and clothing rig isn't going to work with it? Makes more sense to stop looking back and start looking forward. Head morphs for getting the "look" of an older figure and keeping the bodies the same as whatever new figure is made so that you can essentially have one size fitting all.



  • @Teyon
    If it is considered imporant to mime the 'look' of an older figure, yes then I can understand the use for Jessi face morph for Pauline.
    Unless there is a need to express which figure I used (as for recognition of a supporting item) I usually try to get away from the default face look. So for me the Jessi morph for Pauline would be nice to have but not necessary.

    As for the bodies: The fitting room does a reasonably good job in re-rigging. If the geometry conversion, the most difficult bit, can be skipped because the Pauline body shaped to Jessi's curves already matches the geometry of extant Jesssi stuff updating the it for the re-incarnated figure would/should be a breeze.
    So far for the legacy.

    It would be good to have some form of roadmap. Indeed where do we go from here.
    For the future figures sure there is no need to change base body proportions every new generation. While we're at it, also stick to one UV mapping until there are good technological reasons to change to a new mapping.



  • @F_Verbaas All well and good, but useless unless the rigging is fixed on all the SM figures.

    I don't care what clothing fits a poorly rigged figure, I still won't use it.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I wasn't talking about projecting the old figures on to a new mesh. I don't see much point in that. What I meant was using the new master figure to host a new generation of the legacy characters with updated looks. G2 Jessi doesn't look exactly like G1 Jessi. Miki 2 doesn't look exactly like Miki 4, but looking at them, you can tell they are the same character. And each character would have its own body shape, pulled from that master mesh.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Would there be interest in G2 poses and textures?
    I have pondered sets for a while, but have not released them as there did not seem to be a lot of enthusiasm.
    I had been working on some poses to go with the Ancient Rulers and Career clothing sets (Viking poses and Knight poses like the ones I made for M4, some naval and military poses).
    I was also considering some textures.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @kageryu Well they won't earn you anything just sitting on your hard drive ;)

    I say try putting them on CP. There is usually someone looking for new G2 content, and SM has been putting their mega bundle on sale at least once a year, that includes a lot of G2 stuff, so I'm sure people are still buying it. Maybe update some of them for Paul and Pauline too.

    I'm always finding stuff I did for different figures and completely forgot about, stuck in some folder somewhere. Or sometimes I remember it, but don't realize how far along the project was until I look at it again. Of course it's rare I find something I actually finished, lol.