SM produced poser content.
@AmbientShade Name an SM produced Poser figure that is rigged with animated centers.
You see, one must HAVE the animated centers to rig to before one can learn how to do so..........
Again, a circular argument.
The teen morphs for Paul and Pauline.
But no, you don't have to have a figure with animated centers in order to learn how to build for them. You just need to learn how to create animated centers, which is not that difficult, and Poser 11 pro even (attempts to) create them for you when you create a new FBM for a figure.
Look at any of the clothing for Paul and Pauline that come with Poser (I can't say if this exists in any of the 3rd party clothing out there). With the Body of the clothing selected, In the parameters pallet go to the Properties tab and you will see a list of items with check boxes - one of those items is Match End Points. If that box is checked on any body part in the clothing, then that body part's joints will follow the joints of the figure when the FBM is applied. Or at least, that is how it is supposed to work.
Rex and Roxie's clothing have it too. And animated centers can be created for any poser figure - even Dawn and Dusk - and then injected as an FBM.
@AmbientShade you said "at least that is how it is supposed to work."
And therein lies the issue.
I can TRY to rig for animated joints........but it doesn't mean I won't get an end result like this:
Are you using scaling or animated centers, with those body shapes?
Ideally a figure that is designed properly will use a combination of both - the scaling would drive the animated centers, and that scaling would exist in the figure from day one - not as just an add-on. That way anyone creating content for that base figure can take advantage of the scaling, and if FBMs were also built around that base scaling, then content would work with less struggles from the content artist and the end user. There is still going to be some clean-up work involved for any content artist but that is due to how Poser handles morph transfer, not how the figure itself was designed. As we see more improvements to morph transfer that cleanup work will become simpler.
@AmbientShade That's the problem - it doesn't work consistently.
And, as a content creator, I don't control how another vendor creates a morph.
Since I can't get the animated joints to work consistently, I have no option but to eliminate morphs that utilize it.
It should be seamless and consistent and it's not.
I agree on the seamless and consistent part.
There are ways to make it function more consistently though. I'll post some examples of how to do that on my youtube channel when I start building clothing for Orion, which should be in the next few days.
BikerNerd last edited by
Seems to me THE TOOL that SM needs to make is "Poser-Tailor". The idea of the program tool would be to allow us to load the base figure wire-frame parameters as a start and create clothes around it using basic clothes construction check off boxes (Collar: yes /no, Collar shape: Triangle/Flat, buttons: Yes/ no, # of buttons:3-5, etc). Male or female. Like a tailor using a pattern. Materials, colors, fabric style, buttons, belt loops, belt width, longpant legs, shorts, bikini, and so on.. Then we use lassos spaced along the parts of the piece of clothing to shape it (Making the loops larger or smaller and circular or oval). The more lassos the wilder the transitions in/out along the surface sleeve or waist or neck or chest or pant leg.
When we finish the piece, we hit "Make clothes" and it becomes a totally compliant (morphable,etc) Piece of poser clothes for the character we chose. Takes all of the finagling, fiddling and hours spent learning how to use one dynamic or aspect of modelling at a time. Oh, and "3rd party vendor" popularity issues would be out of it, because I could make the piece of clothes I need and then sell it as compliant.
Now THAT is a tool I would buy in a heartbeat.
@BikerNerd Yeah, the "3rd party vendor popularity issues" would be out of it. You'd put them all out of business.
However, if memory serves, something similar to your idea was released over at DAZ and ended up in the clearance bin (Fast Grab) last week.
Teyon last edited by Teyon
Updating the Miki's skin shaders can be done by anyone that wants to create new skins for her. It doesn't require modifying anything in the original figure.
You are right. I used a bad example with the skin.
@Teyon: What would be the use of head morphs of the older figures? Body and shape morphs can be useful for fitting clothing and such, but why would one want a Jessi face on Pauline body?
The benefit is that it would move the figures forward without having to do entirely new bodies each time. Also, why the heck would you want to have new versions of the bodies if the old clothing and clothing rig isn't going to work with it? Makes more sense to stop looking back and start looking forward. Head morphs for getting the "look" of an older figure and keeping the bodies the same as whatever new figure is made so that you can essentially have one size fitting all.
F_Verbaas last edited by
If it is considered imporant to mime the 'look' of an older figure, yes then I can understand the use for Jessi face morph for Pauline.
Unless there is a need to express which figure I used (as for recognition of a supporting item) I usually try to get away from the default face look. So for me the Jessi morph for Pauline would be nice to have but not necessary.
As for the bodies: The fitting room does a reasonably good job in re-rigging. If the geometry conversion, the most difficult bit, can be skipped because the Pauline body shaped to Jessi's curves already matches the geometry of extant Jesssi stuff updating the it for the re-incarnated figure would/should be a breeze.
So far for the legacy.
It would be good to have some form of roadmap. Indeed where do we go from here.
For the future figures sure there is no need to change base body proportions every new generation. While we're at it, also stick to one UV mapping until there are good technological reasons to change to a new mapping.
Glitterati3D last edited by Glitterati3D
@F_Verbaas All well and good, but useless unless the rigging is fixed on all the SM figures.
I don't care what clothing fits a poorly rigged figure, I still won't use it.
I wasn't talking about projecting the old figures on to a new mesh. I don't see much point in that. What I meant was using the new master figure to host a new generation of the legacy characters with updated looks. G2 Jessi doesn't look exactly like G1 Jessi. Miki 2 doesn't look exactly like Miki 4, but looking at them, you can tell they are the same character. And each character would have its own body shape, pulled from that master mesh.
Would there be interest in G2 poses and textures?
I have pondered sets for a while, but have not released them as there did not seem to be a lot of enthusiasm.
I had been working on some poses to go with the Ancient Rulers and Career clothing sets (Viking poses and Knight poses like the ones I made for M4, some naval and military poses).
I was also considering some textures.
@kageryu Well they won't earn you anything just sitting on your hard drive ;)
I say try putting them on CP. There is usually someone looking for new G2 content, and SM has been putting their mega bundle on sale at least once a year, that includes a lot of G2 stuff, so I'm sure people are still buying it. Maybe update some of them for Paul and Pauline too.
I'm always finding stuff I did for different figures and completely forgot about, stuck in some folder somewhere. Or sometimes I remember it, but don't realize how far along the project was until I look at it again. Of course it's rare I find something I actually finished, lol.
rlowens68 last edited by
Does it cost anything to vendor at CP? If not I'd say vendor the stuff, if it sales, then you've got a little bit of pocket money. If not, have you really lost anything? (well maybe your time and it's up to you the value of that).
wandw last edited by
I have a lot of older SM content I bought at CP like the G2 sportswear with props and the Miki2 cop/maid outfits with their props and I just rediscovered all of it and realized how good the products are. What I would love to see on CP are more items of clothing and props/smart props made for the SM line of figures. Maybe even update the Miki2 stuff for Miki4. (though I know I bought all these older products on CP, I don't see them on my purchased list anymore for some reason)
CP redid their site several years ago and the old site's order history didn't come across to the new site. The old history was available for a time on a different url, but i don't recall what it was.....
F_Verbaas last edited by F_Verbaas
As far as I know it does not cost money but of course you need to give your info and you need to fill in some forms CP needs to get things arranged with the US tax office.
eclark1849 last edited by
@rlowens68 I haven't actually made anything new for CP in a while, but to answer your question, NO, it costs nothing to vendor at CP. You even get the lions share of what sells. The biggest problem CP faces right now is a perception problem. People don't consider CP a good place to buy content from, and there are several factors, as I have heard from others, contributing to that perception.
- Is their download policy.
- Is the lack or perceived lack of quality control.
- Is the lack of promotion and marketing. Funny thing is, I get plenty of email from SM for software, absolutely NONE for any content on sale .
I thought I had replied days ago - but it appears, somehow, this got lost in my browsers form history and never sent (because when I go to reply now, the following pops up already typed out from days ago...and I know I hit send...):
@AmbientShade The finished part is where it get's tricky. I would need to finish them up, make some promos, etc... and lately it seems I am always behind on other projects and things I want to accomplish (so much I had planned for RDNA that never got finished or released...much has an unsure future now).
I have a pretty good stock of the older G2 outfits (just missing the time traveler series I believe) - so once I finish the sets I am working on for Rendo and Hivewire, I will dig these poses out again and see where they stood in terms of completion.
With Pauline/Paul I need to get used to them first. I haven't used them much yet as they do not have the morphs and costumes I need for my project. Just too far behind.
I will try to go through my collection of Poser Figure supporting poses and put some sets together this month.