Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results)



  • @willdial said in Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results):

    I understand how annoying this can be. I demand Repeatibility as well.

    Could this be an issue with Queue Manager? I render multiple camera angles in a scene all the time and have not run into the issue, but I don't use Queue Manager or Background Render.

    If you open the scene and manually start the render on the problem machines, do you experience this problem?

    Well I don't own 4 license of Poser, so I can't test that theory. :)

    It's either a problem with Poser, Queue Manager, or both. The scene I linked in this post renders incorrectly on one remote machine, yet the other two remote machines render it properly. All three of those machines are using Queue Manager. It also renders correctly from within Poser itself.

    Yet I have different scene that renders correctly on all remote machines through Queue Manager, yet does not render correctly from within Poser itself.

    It's absolutely ridiculous!



  • Are you using IDL? If so the results will vary from frame to frame due to differences in starting seeds. Unless you crank the settings to examine each pixel (which will take a very very long time) it samples a small number and sometimes it will be less then correct.


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    @richard60
    He stated that he did SuperFly rendering. So no IDL



  • I've read that sometimes not all the textures transfer through the queue manager. If that's the case, it's possible the image for the reflections isn't coming through on one machine. Don't know if saving images to the local hard drive will help.



  • @Ghostman Superfly has IDL. Idl is simply Poser's version of Global Illumination.


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    @eclark1849 said in Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results):

    @Ghostman Superfly has IDL. Idl is simply Poser's version of Global Illumination.

    SF have it per auto. FF you must select it. That's why I said what I said.



  • @richard60 said in Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results):

    Are you using IDL? If so the results will vary from frame to frame due to differences in starting seeds. Unless you crank the settings to examine each pixel (which will take a very very long time) it samples a small number and sometimes it will be less then correct.

    That would explain the issue I described with Firefly. Thank you! I don't believe, as others have said lower down in this thread, that this is the issue in this case.



  • @redphantom said in Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results):

    I've read that sometimes not all the textures transfer through the queue manager. If that's the case, it's possible the image for the reflections isn't coming through on one machine. Don't know if saving images to the local hard drive will help.

    I don't think that's the problem? I can send the same image to the same machine multiple times and it renders incorrectly every single time. And it renders properly on the other machines every single time.

    The same scene has the same problem on the same machine every time. Yet if I render a different scene, it will be a different computer that has an issue. And every once in a while, a scene will work correctly on all machines.



  • So here are a few tests. Many of you should be able to reproduce them. A few points first though:

    1. While these were all GPU renders, I get the exact same results with CPU renders.
    2. These may not be the best render settings, but the results should be the same if the same settings are used on every render, and that is the main issue here - the results are not the same, even with the same settings.
    3. Just adjust the bucket size if you want to try this test with a CPU instead of a GPU.

    Render settings:

    0_1513617637064_render settings.PNG



  • Step 1: Open Poser to the default starting scene, delete Andy, and load Rex Casual.

    Go to the Render menu and select "Render" in order to render from within Poser:

    0_1513617706631_test 3.png

    Go to the Render Menu and select "Render in Queue". Keep in mind you don't need a second computer for this. It will just render on your main machine, but using the Queue. Make sure you have "Process jobs locally" checked in the Queue Manager menu:

    0_1513617773561_test 4_0001.png



  • Notice the difference in the hairline and in the eyes. Those renders were done on the same computer. One was done from withing Poser and one was done from Queue Manager. I would also like to note that this was done on a brand new computer, purchased less than a week ago, with a fresh install of Poser 11 (updated to the latest version). I would also like to note that I was having these exact same problems and results before purchasing the new computer and re-installing, but I still wanted to point out that this test was done on a fresh install.

    Next, load this test scene that's available on this forum and render from within Poser (Render menu - Render). Make sure you adjust the render settings to reflect what I have above, or try your own render settings to see if you get different results:

    0_1513617951808_test 5.png

    Again, render the same scene in the Queue (even if it's on the same machine):

    0_1513617975454_test 6_0001.png

    Notice the difference in the reflections in the window.



  • Now load Rex Causal into the same scene, which is why I mentioned Rex earlier:

    0_1513618061451_test 7.png

    Closeup of his face, rendered within Poser:

    0_1513618077601_test 8.png

    Closeup rendered in the Queue:

    0_1513618091500_test 9_0001.png

    Notice the lack of reflections in the window again when rendered in Poser, and the terrible hairline when rendered in the Queue. The eyes are also inconsistent.



  • So the eyes look pretty terrible there, so let's try the "Simple Glass" Superfly material that comes with Poser 11.

    In Poser:

    0_1513618224114_test 10.png

    In the Queue:

    0_1513618236008_test 11_0001.png

    I applied "Simple Glass" to the left cornea. Honestly, neither of those results is very good but at least the Queue'd version is better.



  • Lastly, let's try BB's "Tricky Glass" material for Superfly on the left cornea.

    In Poser:

    0_1513618316419_test 12.png

    In the Queue:

    0_1513618327296_test 13_0001.png

    I don't think that is any better. :/



  • Now you may say that I'm using bad materials, poor lighting, or a host of other issues may be pointed out with how this scene is set up or configured. However, regardless of all of that the render results should be consistent!

    And they are not! That is an issue for a rendering software whose main purpose is to render images.

    I hope some of you try this test. Though I am not sure whether or not I want you to get the same results or different results. Honestly, I just hope we can figure this out. :)



  • @mr_phoenyxx the problem you are having has to do with "sample all lights direct and indirect". This option gets unchecked automatically when not using separate light samples in the render. That is fine when you are just doing a CPU render as you have a choice but if you use QM or GPU rendering that option goes away and there is nothing you can do about it.



  • @mr_phoenyxx that being said, I get decent results without it. The times it becomes an issue is when you ant to light up an environment (the inside of a modeled room) with multiple light sources like would be in a real room. That is when you'd like the render to take into account all lights. Unfortunately QM and CPU rendering is way too slow for a normal workflow and I have to make choices as to what gets rendered. I'd take a 4kHD GPU render @ 3hours over an HD sized CPU render @ 11 hours any day.



  • @ghostship said in Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results):

    @mr_phoenyxx the problem you are having has to do with "sample all lights direct and indirect". This option gets unchecked automatically when not using separate light samples in the render. That is fine when you are just doing a CPU render as you have a choice but if you use QM or GPU rendering that option goes away and there is nothing you can do about it.

    I believe we talked about this before, in a thread probably over a year ago when I first pointed this problem out. And I think it was me that had decided that it was an issue with those two check marks under the BPT options. But I thought it had since been proven that was wrong? That when you unflag BPT, that both of the sample lights directly options are in fact turned on even though the flags are off?

    I'm not sure what you are saying about that not being an option with Queue Manager. QM should use the same settings as Poser, or does it not do that? Certainly there are no options from within QM to adjust render settings, which is why I have always assumed that it must get its settings from Poser. No?



  • @mr_phoenyxx it's definitely when BPT is unchecked, weather sample all lights is the culprit or not would be better answered by the folks at SM. My guess is that QM has to shut that off to make sure as to not crash as BPT checked will make GPU renders crash on trans-maped hair.



  • @ghostship said in Any idea why this happens? (Inconsistent render results):

    @mr_phoenyxx it's definitely when BPT is unchecked, weather sample all lights is the culprit or not would be better answered by the folks at SM. My guess is that QM has to shut that off to make sure as to not crash as BPT checked will make GPU renders crash on trans-maped hair.

    But then the render results should be consistent between Poser and QM with that setting turned off should they not?