Project Evolution for Poser



  • More info coming soon!



  • Wow...just wow!
    It's always good to see good for your hard work!

    Can't wait!



  • so fantastic.

    With your other, previous video, I was new to this forum and didn't pay much attention to the context, clicked it and I thought it was about some new face tracking algorithm/technique and didn't realize at all that the faces were from poser. LOL



  • This is Project Evolution.

    I think I will stay with the 'Project' part because after release, which I hope will be this xmas, I doubt that work on her will cease. She will probably entirely live up to her name. There is so much I still want to do. In a way I really hope that vendors will take certain parts over from me. Project Evolution is huge, I can barely keep up with the feedback I'm getting from my betas. Project Evolution is extremely ambitious. She is attempting to do several things at once:

    • Give you a fun and high-spec realistic looking lady in your Poser scenes
    • Overcome your Poser figure trauma / skepticism with a pure Poser-tech figure
    • Convince some old-school tech-nuts of some pretty outrageous rigging 😁
    • provide a fast way to rig complex clothing for this figure

    Why?

    I've gone over this story so many times in my head, why bother make Project Evolution? I can list a lot of different reasons, like I've done for years, from feeling challenged, to feeling defiant, for wanting money, for wanting something different, to just fulfill a promise... but the one reason that kept on pushing me on, was seeing my friends and fellow artists struggle to decide to stay with their current software, or migrate to a new one just for the figures ... that didn't sit well with me at all. Without saying anything about the software, switching working environments is not a joke, especially for people heavily invested in that environment (I mean heavily). And what made it worse, is that Poser was very capable of most of the things that my friends wanted, all that was needed is some idiot to do it. Was I to be that idiot?

    Now, I'm in a bit of a unique position when it comes to Poser. Without sounding like a total snob, but probably sounding like one anyway, I'm actually independent of the whole figure circus: I can make my own stuff. I made just about all the content for my first three comics myself. I shouldn't even need to worry. Poser is great because its a super simplified version of Max, or C4D. I love it, for comics, Poser is THE sh!t, despite its issues. But not everyone has the time, or experience I have. And some of these people are my buddies that I spend a lot of time with, farting around with render battles, goofing around with characters posing and acting out the most hilarious stuff that I can bore you with in chatrooms about. They struggled to uproot themselves and find a new way. I felt bad for them. I couldn't hand over my Victoria 4.LaliBits.v32.markVIII.Karat24.Hybrid.X23.cr2 to every Poser user I wanted to help. DAZ would take me to town for that.

    So you could say: ok you dumbass, why didn't you just take some Poser figure, like Dawn, or Pauline, or even Genesis 2, and work on them instead of making an entire figure yourself? Well, they all have 'some issue' don't they? Now before I invite every fan club of every Poser figure out there to come defend their figure here, this is not an attack, this is an approach.

    There are many ways to approach the whole figure design for a CGI application, and it entirely depends on what it is that you want to do with this figure. Many approaches, no matter how cleverly thought out, will be met with limitations. Guys, even this one will have limitations. Even DAZ weren't free of this as they developed their figures. They've done an amazing job with their figures so far, attractive, versatile, well supported. But this is only relevant to people that really want all that. Some folks are just happy with Pauline, and they mean it. Look in the galleries, a Pauline posed with a nice set of hair with some dress, and boom, fun. They're happy. That's the whole point. Nothing to argue there can you?

    But there's also another caliber of artist out there that are more demanding... I mean VERY demanding. Like bordering on evil demanding. I am not even the worst. And you need to let us exist. Some of the art that my buddies crank out put me to shame, with the amount of detail they put into it. I once spent two days revamping my own version of V4 for a friend of mine, detailed to the nines, and he still complained about it. Picky! But that is art for you... Roxie wouldn't even register in the dude's brain. He's a master, he deserves a good figure.

    So yeah there are demands, and all figures will have their limitations. 'Some issue' could be anything from not having enough polys, to having rigging that would have to be done from the ground up anyway, not having genitalia, looking weird, from just not being native to Poser, sure, you could re-design an existing figure, fashion loads of work-arounds and constructions to get past the legal issues... but how about just being independent of all that? If you're going to go through all that trouble to fix a pre-existing figure... why not just make your own?

    Boom. Project Evolution.

    I did my best folks, I hope it will work for you!

    disclaimer: if I die before xmas, don't hold me accountable. Thnx 😁


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Interesting rigging. Good luck getting the average user to touch it.

    I caught hell when I suggested adding a couple extra bones for better shoulder posing. No content maker would touch it, was the average response. That's when I realized most people are not going to let go of Poser 6 tech and decided to just build my figures for myself.



  • @AmbientShade If that were true, Genesis wouldn't be such a big hit. I will agree though that some times you have to force users to confront their discomfort zones. Which might explain how DAZ did it. by simply saying we're moving forward and aren't going to support that anymore. Vendors had no choice but to go along. And if that's all that's available, users will buy it and get used to it.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    PE isn't for the average user. There are plenty of grade-B figures for that.

    "But there's also another caliber of artist out there that are more demanding" <<< this



  • I guess I am one of those users that straddles the line between average and super picky user.
    I have great ideas but not the technical skills in the software to see them to full fruition. For example, Poser's lights still drive me nuts. I keep thinking as a photographer which is it's own topic...but when it comes to figures and their capabilities I still have a ways to go. I am progressing but not nearly fast enough for my tastes.
    I am not so naive as to think that you should expect to drop her in to a scene, slap clothes on her and poof, art! But if i am going to force myself to take the time to learn the finer points of how to make a figure do what I want it to do I need to know that it can actually do it. V4 can't...at least not remotely easily.
    Genesis 1-8...potentially but Daz Studio isn't even remotely intuitive in my mind. About as friendly as a Mack Truck bearing down on you on the highway while you are caught in a bear trap. I prefer poser.

    What I have seen of Project E gives me the hope that the effort will have better rewards this time around. Now to just kick my lazy ass into gear to make the time to do it. :)

    The amount of transparency that has gone with Project E's creation and the willingness of Ero to not only be so transparent but so tolerant of my dumbass questions...have me more than willing, nay excited to take on the challenge and see what this baby can do.

    There was a point in there somewhere.
    Thanks @erogenesis for all your hard work on this.

    Still no news on price?
    -DP



  • PE has all these face handles for expressions. If I use GoZ for making face morphs, will those handles be affected? will it result in distorted handles? I know this problem from dresses and skirts with moving handles.



  • I'm going to say something and I don't want to be attacked just for saying it. I'm not overly excited about Project E. Has nothing to do with the figure itself though. I've seen the video, and I think it looks great. But see, I attribute that to more to Erogenesis' skill as an artist, more than the figure itself. He makes it look easy, and I'm afraid that people are going to look at his artwork and think that they can simply drop PE into a scene and have the same level of artwork that Ero has. and thus, they're going to be disappointed.

    See, for me, Poser has never been about the figures. I've told this story before, but I 've never bought Poser because of what figure is included or available. I bought Poser for what you can do with it. I would have been happy with Stick figures in Poser when I first bought it as long as they were posable.

    Now, that said, I do think Project E is the next step forward for figures in Poser.



  • @eclark1849 I do think, that Poser has always been about figures. That's the original purpose. Made for scetch and paper artists, who need a model to see, how light falls on a figure. Instead of going to a scetching classs every friday watching a nude mid 50s guy sitting on a chair, you can have it at home on your screen. Twisting and turning and posing him as you like it. So, that's why Poser is Poser. It is at first about the figure. If it just was everything else, then mayby Blender whould be the better choice. The idea of using Poser for comics and 3D art came later. I started by doing scetch art, and I was as picky about my scetched figures, as I am with Poser figures.
    In the end, PE is , what every Poser (and DAZ ) figure is. A starting figure. Load your figure and go from here. Make your character, your artwork. This takes work and this is, what we like to do. I am pretty sure, this is right after saled units, the most, you can please Ero with. To create something new out of his work.
    Yup, I am ready for some new steps in evolution.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 said in Project Evolution for Poser:

    @AmbientShade If that were true, Genesis wouldn't be such a big hit. I will agree though that some times you have to force users to confront their discomfort zones. Which might explain how DAZ did it. by simply saying we're moving forward and aren't going to support that anymore. Vendors had no choice but to go along. And if that's all that's available, users will buy it and get used to it.

    Daz can get away with doing that because they have the marketing muscle and nearly 2 decades of customer confidence behind them. And the move to G1 was not an easy ride. Everybody didn't just jump on board with it - they caught all sorts of hell and nay-sayers for it. Back when G1 first launched I was seeing ads on every art related site I visited, even those that had nothing to do with 3D. From colleges to game sites to art supply stores even. If it was remotely connected to art, daz had an ad there. All that advertising went a long way to making G1-8 work for them, because it attracted a new audience that wasn't set in their ways and familiar with how things used to be. The indie figure artist doesn't have that.

    And if that's all that's available, users will buy it and get used to it.

    No. They'll just keep using V4.



  • Progress often starts off with the first step: the step in the right direction. But you can only determine if it was right much later. But you need to take some kind of a step. This is my take on that step.

    7 years ago I was working in a park. between black rhinos. I never knew I'd be making a Poser figure 7 years later. It all started with my first step, a small comic to test the waters. It resulted in several more, and Lali's Bits... and now Project Evolution. None of that was possible if I didn't take that first careful step.

    Yes she's not entirely simple, but she's not entirely difficult either. She's basically the equivalent of a very pimped up V4. There are loads of expressions you can just dial in if you want. You don't need to be skilled with those handles at all.

    That video is to show you what is possible. Don't be intimidated by it. I'm a bit of a freak anyway. You can still use PE old-school Poser style with dials n stuff. In fact you might have noticed she was built in PP2014.

    And yeah, if nobody picks her up, too bad. But at least I tried. She's there if you need her. Keep if fun, folks!

    0_1513699328980_turtleneck demo 1.png

    PS: no the handles don't need to get involved in zBrush morphs, as long as you either hide them or mask them.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    LOL: The picture above is very usable.

    I my twisted mind?
    I see this hanging in the Colgate or Pampers headquarters entrance hall. LOL.



  • @vilters I TOTALLY thought pampers too. LOL
    -DP


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @masterstroke

    When GOZ-ing PE, hide the handles, there is a dial for it under rigcontrols.
    There is also a dial to hide the lashes when they are in the way when making facemorphs.



  • @Biscuits Cool thank you. GOZ-ing??? :-D lol



  • @Biscuits was that a Ghost Busters reference? Gozor the Gozarian goes Go'Zing!, perhaps? ;-)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Lol...I don’t know how to call it otherwise!



  • This is PE's built-in Nordic Girl character morph, V4 Hot Dress converted using the included system for easily adapting V4 clothing to PE, Ali's hair 162, and Alisia high heels for G3F rigged to conform to PE. The dudes are Hero David and Hero Antoine (not yet posted to freebies) for Paul wearing the Classic Tuxedo for G3M. The makeup is Antenais's classic G2.

    0_1513724749789_Nordic Girl V4 Hot Dress.jpg


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