How to make a mirror in Superfly?



  • I feel I'm missing something really obvious here, but I can't seem to make a simple mirror work in Superfly?

    Do I need the super ultra deluxe rendering option with caustics and all? I mean .. I can make shiny stuff all right, but not a reflecting mirror.

    What am I missing? Can someone PLEASE post the proper nodes?



  • did you try this:

    0_1515675002902_basic mirror.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Yeah - use the Reflect node with all its defaults.

    Please note the ray bias value is in whatever Poser Display Unit you have chosen. For me this shows not as .025 but rather as .3. (Because my chosen PDU is the inch)

    You do not need to edit that value to say 0.025 - just leave it unless you have a reason to change it.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    However I'd like to correct starlingblue on one detail.

    For FireFly it is VERY important that the Reflection_Lite_Mult checkbox is UNCHECKED.



  • Aha. So I should use the regular PoserSurface root node?

    I understood the tutorial that I had to (or should preferably) use the PhysicalSurface node for Superfly.

    Thanks. I guess my mirror would have worked as it used to, had I not tried to change it :3


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trekkiegrrrl said in How to make a mirror in Superfly?:

    Aha. So I should use the regular PoserSurface root node?

    I understood the tutorial that I had to (or should preferably) use the PhysicalSurface node for Superfly.

    Thanks. I guess my mirror would have worked as it used to, had I not tried to change it :3

    There are literally an infinite number of ways to make exactly the same shader.

    So your statement "I should use the regular PoserSurface root node" is incorrect.

    However, if you want to get there in the fewest clicks that works for both SF and FF, then it is correct. This is why we picked what we picked, not out of any obligation to the root node.

    The Cycles surface and the PhysicalSurface can do exactly the same output but take marginally a few more seconds to assemble, and would only work in SF.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here for example this works exactly the same.

    0_1515675934084_cf2a0b94-f94c-498b-bde9-b848829bb048-image.png

    However the steps were remove a node, add a node, and edit three values.

    That is more work than just to add a Reflect node.



  • @trekkiegrrrl while we wait for the masters to reply, I will offer my received wisdom on the matter.

    For a pure, flat, silver (no metallic colouration of the reflections) mirror, you can probably get away without some of the physical corrections applied by the shader I use, such as fresnel modulation of reflective intensity based on angle of incidence, in which case you can probably get away with a single GlossyBsdf node with 0.0 roughness and GGX distribution, plugged into the Alternate_Specular input of the PoserSurface root node. Others will swear by different solutions, but I've been striving for believability in my renders and what I've gleaned leads me to settle with more, rather than less.
    0_1515675013513_Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 11.47.03 pm.png
    0_1515675027458_Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 11.46.39 pm.png

    The setup I have here is part of a more-or-less physically realistic parabolic, silvered glass mirror. It's just a flattened, parabolically morphed cube with five glass shaded facets and one slivered facet, letting me play with a slight green volumetric tinge on the glass, and add cloudy, tarnish effects to the silver if I want to simulate ageing. Provided I use Reflective caustics and have Glossy bounces sufficiently high (I use 6, YMMV), it will focus reflected light sources (burning ants, style) and magnify objects at its focus, just like a real reflecting telescope mirror.

    0_1515675948746_Screen Shot 2017-12-28 at 11.43.48 pm.png

    Woo hoo! Gazumped! I will edit this post to avoid any contradictions to @bagginsbill 's cross-posts, so as to avoid confusing anyone. ;-) Just gotta find out where I may be in error...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The OP specifically used the word "simple"

    "make a simple mirror"

    So I did not bring in any of those complications of realism.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The MOST realism is achieved via a double reflection because a physical real mirror does this.

    Please see:

    https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/2351/pp2014-proper-mirror-material-with-double-reflection-bagginsbill

    And ponder your mistakes. Pthhthth



  • Oh I'm all for more intricate solutions. Even when I don't always (actually .. more often than not) understand what a given node does, I like tinkering with it and see. I'm a "hands on" person. I learn by doing. But of course, everyone needs a starting point :)

    What I meant by simple was mostly that it's easy to do in Firefly, but since I thought it took something else to do it for Superfly .. well ... I just messed it up XD

    I have yet to figure out what the cycles root does ... when to use that .. or not.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Well then if you do want a more accurate reflection based on angle of incidence, it would be good to introduce that somehow.

    Please note, though, that even use of Fresnel_Blend or its friends is still an APPROXIMATION because the FB node is about dielectrics only!!!

    It does not produce the response that metal does as FB's IoR is a single number.

    The IoR of metals involves a complex number, having a real and imaginary component (these are called n and k) and we don't have a node that supports this.

    I usually just approximate with a very high IoR like 25. This is good enough.



  • @bagginsbill A hah! [Inserts tongue in cheek and contemplates the sound of one hand clapping] a chance to correct the master!

    I would have said for maximum realism, turn off your computer and go outside! ;-)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    0_1515676597052_b5af2365-5e0c-4786-ae98-6b0ec22d48c7-image.png

    Something like this works fine. Note I used the CyclesSurface and GlossyBsdf here for demo, not because it's needed. Any surface can do this.



  • @bagginsbill

    Just to be sure of the terms ...

    Angle of incidence = the angle something is reflected at, right?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Suppose you want Gold or Copper metal, not a silver-backed glass.

    Well then you go like this:

    0_1515676790608_efffa8c2-6e4b-4f8f-a8ef-0161bffb3c34-image.png


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trekkiegrrrl said in How to make a mirror in Superfly?:

    @bagginsbill

    Just to be sure of the terms ...

    Angle of incidence = the angle something is reflected at, right?

    Yes. The angle formed between the ray of light bouncing off the surface, and the surface normal.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Colored metal that works both in SF and FF (because of special rules in SF -- this does NOT work in Cycles)

    0_1515677017985_8d2a0988-cd9d-4469-a7b9-8be5dadc69f1-image.png



  • @bagginsbill said in How to make a mirror in Superfly?:

    Suppose you want Gold or Copper metal, not a silver-backed glass.

    Well then you go like this:

    0_1515676790608_efffa8c2-6e4b-4f8f-a8ef-0161bffb3c34-image.png

    Aha. I can sorta see what it does. I will have to putter around with this to understand it fully, but I get the gist.

    Not that I'd ever been able to come up with this on my own, but I'm fairly good at studying nodes and figuring out which does what :) And then wreck it from there ;)



  • @bagginsbill a question regarding the RayBias in the reflect node. Does that have any parallel in the GlossyBsdf or other Cycles sourced nodes, or is it completely internalised/irrelevant? And the Quality setting, as well. Worth playing with or just ignore in SuperFly?